Theresa Caragol, Founder and CEO, AchieveUnite - Leading Through Trust: Theresa Caragol on Building Partnerships That Scale

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hi! I'm Shannon Lucas, one of the co-ceos at Catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalyst to create bold, powerful change in the world. This is our podcast move, fast, break, shit, burn out where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully drive transformation in large organizations. And today, I'm thrilled to have time with Teresa Karagal. Welcome, Teresa.

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Theresa Caragol: Thank you. Thanks for having me today.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm excited for the conversation, for our audience. Teresa is the founder and CEO of Achieve Unite, Inc.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: She's a visionary leader with over 20 years of experience in global partnerships and strategic alliances valued at 500 million plus dollars. She's driven growth across 50 different countries through innovative collaboration. She's passionate about empowering leaders through growth, trust, and collaboration with expertise in leadership, development, emotional intelligence and partnerships. Teresa has trained thousands in leadership, channel and

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: partnering best practices.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: She also designs programs for companies, associations, and universities. She's a sought after speaker and the author of partnering success. The force multiplier to achieve exponential growth growth, which was an Amazon number one, release and bestseller in 20 categories.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: She has held executive roles at extreme network. Sienna and Nortel. I'm excited to have you here. So that's the like high level version, and people can check you out on Linkedin. But I would love to hear about your catalytic journey, maybe sharing a few career highlights that help that you're proud of that help us see your catalytic nature.

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Theresa Caragol: Well, my catalytic journey is founded in 2 areas. One is the power of partnerships. I started early on probably my early twenties.

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Theresa Caragol: loving this whole concept of channels and partners. And I wanted to be an expert in it. And I can remember opening a magazine that had all these guys senior role. And I was like, I'm going to be one of those someday. And so that was the 1st one, and then the second one was I went through and then got to lead

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Theresa Caragol: a total of 12 different acquisitions and integrations, and I had the privilege of leading 3 later in my career, where we had to make one plus one equal more than

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Theresa Caragol: 2 in our company now does that as an offering, because we got so good at it, doing it inside of the organization. And you know, in M. And a right, if you can't get cultures aligned and teams aligned and partnerships aligned, and the go to market aligned, and the systems and the pricing and the products and all those things. Nothing happens good. And we were really successful at that. And so I'm very proud of those times that I had the privilege of doing that as well.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Okay, so you picked up a magazine or something like, How did you know about the world of partnerships? I mean, like that? That's not a.

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Theresa Caragol: Sort of a thing in the tech industry. It's a big thing. And so, you know, it's called the Channel and back 25, maybe even 30 years ago, it was just becoming a thing. And and actually, recently, last week, we just announced the acquisition of the 1st channel consulting firm in the world

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Theresa Caragol: who we just bought and bought all of their intellectual property. So yeah, it has become a thing and a big. Now it's really a thing, but early on it wasn't as much.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Congratulations on that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: so I'd love to understand from you, in your own words how you relate to the concept of being a catalyst, and also how that might support you. Being an executive.

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Theresa Caragol: Well, you know, it's interesting, this book partnering success, the force multiplier for exponential growth.

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Theresa Caragol: It really is all about change. Because if you're going to build partnerships, and you're going to build growth. You have to have a catalyst for change. And we talk about what makes change happen. And how do you make it stick and successful? And you know, how do you get a partnering, DNA? And

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Theresa Caragol: you know that is something that I've studied for the last 30 years I've led for the last 20 years. I've helped companies adopt. And so that's how we've sort of learned what works and what doesn't work. And

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Theresa Caragol: yeah, we can get into lots of specifics around being a catalyst. I love that word.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, let's get into specifics in a minute. But I'm wondering if there was a moment where you realize that you had this catalytic nature that maybe other people around you didn't have, and what that moment was like for you.

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Theresa Caragol: I realized early on I had a lot of energy and enthusiasm. And people would, you know, say, Oh, my God! She has such a positive attitude. And you know those things. I don't know that I realized that it was the catalyst. I figured that out later, when we

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Theresa Caragol: we have a psychometric Index and Measures Trust, and there's 5 profiles of people, and it's very scientific. It's got very high validity and reliability. It was done with 3 universities that took 3 years to build dot fast forward. There's 5 profiles, and one of them is an energizer, and the energizers are often these catalytics for change, and they are often very high trust builders and very high

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Theresa Caragol: activators of others. And I think that's when I probably put that together. And honestly, that was only 4 years ago, so I don't know that I got this whole thing until recently.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Well, so building on that then, as you were, you know, doing the M. And as, and driving all of this change and new partnership approaches, etc. What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced, which maybe you can now say as an energizer, as a catalyst. And what most helped you in overcoming some of those challenges.

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Theresa Caragol: You know, I, the people, the people, the people, the people, you know, and I didn't always understand to the degree of which the people have to come on the journey for change, and the degree to which trusted relationships

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Theresa Caragol: helps people come on the journey for change, you know, and

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Theresa Caragol: and, by the way, that's the 1st of 3 elements of the system for partnering success is trusted business relationships. And

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Theresa Caragol: I get that at a whole nother level. Now, you know, I

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Theresa Caragol: still techniques that were hard. I really work on on a regular basis, one being leaning into really hard, difficult, messy conversations. And, you know, being able to have them in a group, and you know respecting others while you have them. And Dot, Dot, you know there's a lot there's so much tension that's high in these tough situations that you've got to keep. You've got to build and keep trust high.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Is there an example of a time when that wasn't working for you that helped you realize that insight.

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Theresa Caragol: Oh, my goodness, oh, yeah, I can remember a gentleman who I was gonna have the job that we both had had the job and they had said that I was going to get the job, and he was going to either be a report or do something different. And he looked at me and he said, You know what you like, people around you that tell you what you want to hear.

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Theresa Caragol: and you need people around you that tell you what you don't want to hear. And, man, he was right.

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Theresa Caragol: and that was probably 15 years ago, and I still remember that conversation.

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Theresa Caragol: and you know you have to seek out information you don't really want to hear sometimes.

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Theresa Caragol: and and not be afraid of it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Any other challenges being a catalyst, especially, maybe in the M and a space. I mean that cultural piece. The bringing the 2 cultures together is always a challenge.

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Theresa Caragol: Culture is really important. And then, you know, the other thing that's really important. And we talk about this also in the book is defining a joint north star. You know it's not my north star. It's not this North Star. It's something that gets everybody of both of the partner bases excited about what the new vision could be and what their role could be in the new vision. So the joint North star is a technique.

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Theresa Caragol: It's a vision. It's a strategy. It's something that I really. We teach it in our programs. But that has really helped. And I watched it happen in action. And now I see it when people do it right?

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Theresa Caragol: So that would probably be one of them. Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's easier said than done. Do you have any any advice for how to do that? I mean, especially if you're the acquiring company. My guess is is that you have a strong vision about why you acquired that company, and.

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Theresa Caragol: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: There should be.

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Theresa Caragol: Yeah, I mean, I. So I would say, there's a couple of different pieces of advice. One is, if you, the degree to which we bring people along on the journey and creating the vision is often the degree to which we're successful 2 years later. Right?

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Theresa Caragol: So how do you create the joint North Star if you don't already have it, or maybe you have elements of it. But you want to have input along the way. So I'm a big fan of a joint swat.

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Theresa Caragol: You know the strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities and threats, and then out of that often comes your ingredients for a North Star. I'm sure you've run workshops like this where you can help get that created. So that's 1 technique. Another technique is, you know, the the people coming along on the journey and

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Theresa Caragol: feeling like they get to have, they get communicated to that. People are transparent with them. Maybe they get to have a say, maybe they don't get to have a say, and we're transparent about that, you know. I think the degree to which you can instill trust by being transparent.

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Theresa Caragol: and by being a strong communicator, and in these situations over communicating what we think is over communicating is actually not over communicating totally one of the best integrations. I went through the CEO had a daily email that came out. It was every day during the integration, for I think, 6 months, and

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Theresa Caragol: it was that integration up being very, very successful, and I thought that was a great strategy.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, the over communication can be really painful for us as catalysts. And there's a certain amount of

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Emotional labor is a word that I use. It's a little bit charged, but it's like when you are the person who's leading the change. And you're talking about bringing all of the other people along. It's incumbent on us if we're driving the change to make sure that we're doing that, how do you manage your energy when you're bringing all those stakeholders along.

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Theresa Caragol: Well.

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Theresa Caragol: I think I still learn this. You know the we energizers have a high level of energy, and we're naturally, you know, and then I'm an entrepreneur on top of that, so I can believe I can go over mountains and around mountains and under mountains, and you know I can. I live my life that way. Right? So so it's fine when you're with an energizer, you know, and it's probably fine when you're with a collaborator. Another one of the profiles.

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Theresa Caragol: It's not fine. When you're with an exemplar. It's not fine

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Theresa Caragol: when you're with a harmonizer. So sometimes we have to match the energy of the others around us.

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Theresa Caragol: And now, you know, we actually do Pqi and trust building in M and a situations in change situations. And it's so fun because people are getting ready to go through. Change, learn the language of trust building, and then they're like, Oh, that's your exemplar coming out. Oh, look, energizer, hey? Can you tone it down a little bit? Because, you know, we exemplars have this, or we harmonizers want this, and I think giving ourselves permission and a language to talk about these kinds of things.

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Theresa Caragol: Is really, it's a propeller for a change.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So spot on. We talk about like having an intentional network map and paying

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: to the equivalent of those different personalities, and like

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: being really intention about when you're going to engage them, how you're going to engage them. It helps us manage our our energy better.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I wanna go back to something that you talked about earlier, too, which is the ability to have the difficult conversations or be comfortable with the uncomfortable conversations.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's not

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: catalysts or people pleasers per se. But there's this tension of bringing people along, and a lot of us think bringing people along is like being nice and making them feel. You know all of these things? Do you have specific advice? For you know catalysts about how to lean into the difficult conversations in a way that that helps them, but also gets productive outcomes.

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Theresa Caragol: I do, and it's actually in the book, and it is a difficult conversations template, and it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Please.

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Theresa Caragol: Helps you prepare for the conversation, and I think the degree to which we prepare for the conversation. We know what outcome we want in the conversation.

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Theresa Caragol: We know where the people or person, or you know what where they might be in the continuum of receiving the conversation. You know, I think those things are really important to what the outcome that we get in the conversation is and then my other guiding principle is.

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Theresa Caragol: you know, if you have something to say, say it to the person, not when the person isn't in the room, you know, and I think it's hard for all of us, but that is a very, very important part of a high performing team. It's a very important part of leading change. It's a very important part of trust building. And so, you know, I think that one is, and none of us get it right all the time. You know, I still don't always get it right, but really being conscious of it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Totally.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And one of the things that I've been, I've learned over the years, and when we work with people is creating a feedback culture, where you're also sometimes asking for the feedback. So you're.

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Theresa Caragol: Traveling.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Like, hey? I'm not just willing to share it when I see it. But creating that vulnerable space.

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Theresa Caragol: Yeah, I think that's a great point. I'm being willing to receive it, even, you know, not always wanting the good things from my friend 15 years ago to being able to hear the hard things all the time.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That's right, totally.

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Theresa Caragol: Yeah, absolutely.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: This may be a segue into that, although it doesn't have to be, which. So sometimes as catalysts, we can be called troublemakers or disruptors, and while we may wear these with a badge of honor, they can also point to behaviors that we can exhibit. That you know other people might, can be limiting for us in a professional environment.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm wondering what you've learned about how to be regarding being a catalyst and making it to the upper echelons of being an executive, because certainly, like the higher and higher we get, the more those those things could potentially sort of hold us back.

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Theresa Caragol: Right.

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Theresa Caragol: you know I look at the best leaders who are great at people who want to follow them, you know, and part of that is.

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Theresa Caragol: I think, the old ways of leadership and the new ways of leadership, where you instill trust, and you are genuine and authentic, and you are a change, a catalyst for change. I think sometimes those things are oxymorons and the people who are able to do both. You know, we're doing change, and we're doing it with empathy. We're doing it with, you know. That's that's a hard mix.

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Theresa Caragol: It's almost yin and yang sometimes.

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Theresa Caragol: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Such a good point.

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Theresa Caragol: Hmm.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Okay. Final question, favorite catalyst, that inspires you, past or present. And why.

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Theresa Caragol: I have 3 mentors who are actually, this book is dedicated to these 3 people, and I'll just share. I have some other mentors who are my favorites from when I was younger. But you know, Bob O'malley, he is a catalyst for change.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: He has the power and the ability to see something 2 or 3 years before it happens, and.

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Theresa Caragol: And then connect and build a framework around that. And we've done that a lot with Bob over the years. He's been a wonderful godfather to achieve, unite. And

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Theresa Caragol: you know he's taught us so many, so much and so he's definitely a catalyst. And he was a 6 time, CEO. He always built and believed in partnership. So there's something to be said about that as well. Ron Rohner, the one I told you about the 1st channel consulting firm, the godfather of the Channel. He is a catalyst for change, in that he was a data

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Theresa Caragol: just like

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Theresa Caragol: just absorb, needed, found, gathered, drove change, but it was always, always, always using data. And so he, to me, is just an amazing role model of change and depth, change and data change and information change, and how to do it, and and the dangers of not doing it, if you don't have the right information. So that would be another lesson. And then the 3rd one is my mentor, Karen

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Theresa Caragol: Karen Slatford is one of the 1st women on corporate boards in the Uk. She's an incredible leader. She was ran worldwide sales and marketing for Carly Fiorina and HP,

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Theresa Caragol: and she is just this amazing. She has this amazing ability to connect

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Theresa Caragol: where people are in a company and where they need to be. And then big steps.

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Theresa Caragol: big things, one or 2 big things that they can do to get there and then rally everybody around those, and you know she's done that for us. I've watched her do that for other companies and get them to an exit. She's just brilliant at that. So yeah, all 3 of them have taught me lessons, and they're all different.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Those are amazing lessons. And what great mentors to have.

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Theresa Caragol: I mean.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Final wisdom to share with our listeners.

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Theresa Caragol: I guess I'll maybe 3 final wisdom. One is my grandma, my mom's mom said, life is all in your attitude.

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Theresa Caragol: So you know your attitude dictates your choices, it dictates your happiness, it dictates your life. So I would say, that is one, and going through change. It requires you to get up in the morning, and, you know, put your big girl pants on and really focus on being that change leader and being one of the people that others can see leaning into the change. My second piece of advice is.

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Theresa Caragol: I learned from Gail Bridges transition model, and you know that not all of us absorb change differently, so absorbs change the same way. So where are we in the Change Curve? And I love that model, and I love

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Theresa Caragol: understanding and taking the time to understand where someone is, because if you're trying to change them, and they're all the way back at being angry and not believing it. You're not going to move them at all, you know, like, so it's another way to look at your trust lens. But I think it's a really great way to think about where someone is on the journey.

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Theresa Caragol: and before we try to accelerate that, we have to figure out, if that's even possible.

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Theresa Caragol: So that's number 2, and then number 3 is

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Theresa Caragol: My other grandma said. The more love you give, the more love you have to give, and it's an emotion that is infinite, and can keep on going and keep on going. And so you know the degree to which we can do this with kindness and help and in service of others is really really important.

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Theresa Caragol: Amen. What a beautiful place to stop! Thank you.

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Theresa Caragol: Thank you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's such a fun conversation. Sorry I didn't mean to cut you off.

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Theresa Caragol: No, it was great. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Absolutely, and thanks so much to our listening audience. If you'd like to learn more about how to create bold, powerful change in the world. Be sure to check out our book, move fast, break, shit, burnout, or go to our website at catalystconstellations.com. Obviously we will be putting a link in the show notes to the partnering success, and if you enjoyed this episode as much as I do, please take 10 seconds to rate it on Itunes spotify, stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: If you have other catalysts in your life, hit the share button and send a link their way. Thanks. Again.