Christina Rapsomanikis, Global Vice President of Digital & e-Commerce at Mars - Slowing Down to Amplify Impact

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I'm Tracy Lovejoy.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And I'm Shannon, Lucas. We are the co-ceos of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalyst to create bold, powerful change in the world.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): This is our podcast move, fast, break ship burnout, where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to lead successful transformation in large organizations. And today we are incredibly excited to have time with Christina wraps the Manicus Hi, Christina!

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Christina: Hi! 

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): We're so glad to have you. Christina is a tenured growth leader with a comprehensive background, moving in fast moving consumer goods, luxury, fashion, and beauty, currently serving as the global vice president of digital and e-commerce at Mars. As a fully fledged catalyst. Christina has spearheaded enterprise, wide digital transformations as well as launched her own business. Despite her dynamic career and accomplishments, Christina recognizes the importance of balance and mindfulness in her life. You know that we love that.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): in fact, of late she's been on a quest to be more intentional, embracing a journey towards tranquil tranquility, and while still harnessing the power of her catalyst persona. Hmm! How does she do that? By infusing her life with a sense of calmness? Christina aims to cultivate a harmonious equilibrium that honors her innate abilities while fostering personal well-being.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): It's so great to have you here, Christina.

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Christina: It's so great to be with you both.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): So we'd love to hear in your own words. How do you relate to the concept of catalyst? And how does that relate to your leadership? Roles.

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Christina: Yeah, I think, firstly, congrats for naming us. It was amazing. 

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Christina: firstly, I just love to call out, when you guys did this beautiful line that really resonated with me? We had a mutual friend that said, Hey, read this book, meet these amazing women. And this piece about connecting dots, and you know how you wanna change the world even when people haven't asked for it. I loved that 

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Christina: because, firstly, I feel really proud really proud to be a catalyst and and how it shows up for me, I think, is I have amazing foresight. Which is great as a leader. Really.

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Christina: really big moments of flexibility and resilience. And I think I lead really courageously, because you're always trying to take charge of initiatives. I think it shows up some some amazing ways

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Christina: in my leadership.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): And we'd love to hear. How does the calmness, infusion, the journey, right of tranquility? How tell us about this in relation to being analyst.

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Christina: Yeah. Honestly, I think it's been a journey. I I've always had this hunch that I probably should slow down and kind of honor myself. I was always honoring other people, which I think a lot of catalysts do. You're honoring your team, honoring your business, honoring your family, so I always have this hunch that I probably needed to slow down, and there was a moment where I got this really big tap

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Christina: a moment of I ended up getting sick, and so I went to the doctors, and she did some tests on me, and described what was going on, and it wasn't until she said to me, You have to slow down. I burst into tears, and she was like, why, of everything I've told you, you've cried it slowing down, you know. And I said to her, like, this is my super power. You cannot take the

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Christina: away from me. But but I think at the beginning, even though I was quite frustrated to slow down. I love the fact, and I see as a real

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Christina: gift that I've been told to slow down, and my body's telling me to slow down, because actually, what it's enabled is

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Christina: true intentional work now. So I can be a catalyst with intention. I can think about how I care for myself. I show up better. And with that, then I've been able to kind of put some amazing guard rails around, how I operate, how I eat, how I think and of course you're always iterating on those. And I remember going back to see her with my excel spreadsheet of everything I've done with iterations, and I wanted the praise, and she was like, Okay, we've got past

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Christina: again. Slow down so like you can't stop that. But the intent is there? And then kind of that means it comes with you. So when you're traveling with work, it comes with you, and honestly, it's been one of the greatest gifts, I'd say personally and in business, and people have noticed it in me, and I'm thrilled. I get to be more intentional.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I feel like your ability to make change has slowed down like, has the pace of impact actually slowed down as you have made the hard change to slow down

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): your campus here.

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Christina: Hey, Because you tie in the change bravery, the bigness. I'm the change in a business. And you talk about that law in your book that you're putting these roles by companies that expect you to make the change. And I'm doing transformational digital change. But I think lots of people are making some variation of change. And yes, you fear you do fear that. And actually, what I would say is.

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Christina: the change I'm making that is more thought through.

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Christina: make longer change impacts.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): That's and so, if you are, you know, talking to fellow catalyst executives out there.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I hear that the change, the slowing down, has been incredibly good for you, for your health.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Would you recommend it in terms of

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): bravery or impact?

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Christina: Yeah, because I think

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Christina: I'd be interested. What you guys think that I remember going to the doctor and saying after a while, just saying like, I've always felt like a brain on legs like I felt so disconnected because when you're doing these kind of roles and doing the change in businesses you. You often feel really isolated. You can have a team, you can have people around you.

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Christina: but often your brain is working so fast and you're working to deliver that that can feel very lonely. And so I would. I think the semantic work that you can do is incredible, like, incredible to connect yourself, and often, you know, people say they get their inspiration from nature. The movement piece I found really helpful, and I would highly recommend that.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I love that the ability to be in your body more as you're dealing with systems and people and change

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): a brain on legs. It's such a good like.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Description.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Mindlessly through an environment right? As opposed to like. I am here with you in this environment that's really powerful. Thank you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I also know that the way that I I it resonates deeply with me. You're like Type A, and as your catalyticness and solving the problem right like when I started to when I started to try and integrate some of that was like, well, then, I'm going to hike the John Muir trail by myself.

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Christina: Yes.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's like this type. Anus is like, this is the way I do. But I also. And we talk about this in classes, the the the ability to iterate, to apply some of those catalyst super powers to create the change in your life that you want. And it's like, Okay, so Yoga on Tuesday morning didn't work. Maybe it's in the Wednesday evening, or whatever is gonna work with me. So I love the intentionality and focus of your catalyst superpowers on solving that problem.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: The answer!

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Alright! I'd love to take a sort of change tack a little bit and talk about as a catalyst leader. Could you share one or 2 of the major challenges that you faced in driving transformation with your, you know, with your within your organization, or, you know, set another way, like what are some of the hurdles that you've encountered as a catalyst leader.

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Christina: 1st of all, you have to look at the size, and often that comes with decentralization, decentralization or non-decentralization

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Christina: cause that really impacts like how you go about that transformation. You may have bigger stakeholders. You may have bigger stakes that play and the autonomous nature of a of a company. Now I'm in a huge big Fmcg. Company all over again, which is, I started off at Unilever as a kid, and I'm like Whoa! I'm back here and in between that I've had this like beautiful, like autonomous business owner, moment that I that I really struggle with like, how does that work

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Christina: for me. So I think, being really aware

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Christina: of the size of the business and and how you can impact is important. And then, secondly, I think the Biggie for me is this risk tolerance? We talked about it a second ago, but

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Christina: not many people, like many people, are risk adverse, and I'm certainly not. And so you either have

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Christina: realized you're not through doing lots of different roles. And your definitive. You've got a definitive blueprint.

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Christina: or you are like realizing quite quickly. I'm a catalyst, and oh, my goodness, I can! Do you know this is who I am, so I think you know the manner of how you bring everybody on board and kind of calm those moments of like, don't worry. I've got this if you want to call it psychological safety but these. These are big moments that put a lot of new strain on you. And and actually, I'm saying strain. But actually, I also find them quite fun, because you're trying to like you're trying to break that behavior for a company again.

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Christina: And you go back to your A type iterative moment of how do I do this? Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And so, if you had a moment, I mean a a, an opportunity to modify some aspects of your current role, to to address the challenges. And you're super already effective like you've won awards. It's amazing to see what you've been doing. But what would that be?

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Christina: I think the ability to reach more further and faster. And the faster it maybe I can slow down on a bit now. So when I was younger, as I have to put this transformation through super super fast. And so I think I'm getting better at the Enterprise piece

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Christina: years ago, I think I would have found these small cohorts and built them out and surround, sounded everybody, and added to them and done it, and built a kind of tribe which I know I'm I'm really good at building tribes. I've been able to put together this amazing enterprise, capabilities and skills assessment, put a framework around it and given the reason to believe. And now everyone's adopted it. Which means, then, they're following my journey. So

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Christina: just learning how to make it on a bigger scale and explain how all the jobs to be done have got different inputs from different functions. And why? So I think that I've been able to modify that and then.

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Christina: yeah, this kind of risk piece, I probably would say, I probably would say, being able to build those

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Christina: cohorts and making sure that you celebrate. So if you build a wonderful like micro team, and then you add to it, and then that kind of radiates out. But making sure you celebrate it enough, and it's quite often I've I've forgotten that. And you know I'm calling myself out. But in the last few months I forget that you get so busy. You forget to celebrate the people that are joining. You. Say I thanks for joining. I appreciate you. And

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So important. I mean, 2 things that we talk about in the book is, you know how lonely it can be being a catalyst, and what the transformative power is of connecting catalysts in constellations across your network or in and out of the organization, and then combining that with Hey, let's let's shine the light on the work that we've done, because it's catalyst. We are always like the the goal that we set, we think is the impossible goal.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: and then collectively, we crush it, and we forget how impossible that seemed cause. We see the mountain behind the foothills right? And so it's like the the moment and and sort of connecting the celebration back to the rejuvenation practice to just how energy forming it is. I'm curious, I mean, sounds like a lot of personal work that you've done on that like, what have you found for support that's enabled you to sort of over, you know, develop those insights and overcome the challenge.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And are there other forms of support that you feel might help enable, you know, people to tackle those similar types of challenges more effectively.

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Christina: Yeah, I think mostly mentoring coaching. I found that really helpful for me, and if I didn't have it. I remember walking to one company not having it. And I I was like, I've got to have one because I need people to understand where I'm going, and I need the support, not just someone, senior, but doesn't have to be too too senior. But I need to support someone that's able to understand the fact that I really need

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Christina: sharpening and support on my hard skills, my soft skills where I need them to play with me. I think it's so powerful to have someone that understands you. I think I was blessed enough at 1 point in my career to have

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Christina: a great guy. And he I remember him saying to me, Can I just tell you that your land. Is really bad, like he thinks too much, and I was like Oh, gosh! So! he worked with me to the point where he had me have a he had an on my phone, a picture of a tree, so that every time before I presented I would see roots and green

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Christina: and then he also worked with me on slowing down my pace and packaging up my work and great framework. So, having someone like that, that, you can be truly vulnerable with, and they can be back. So I think it's exceptionally rewarding for the mentor as well. So I think that is amazing. And then, also having my second one, would probably be

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Christina: having

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Christina: your what do you call it? Your cabinet? My brother in law has his own business, and I, when I have my own business. I remember talking to him, just saying everyone wants to be involved.

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Christina: and he was like, and no one has the right to be involved, find the people that are going to inspire. You find the people that are gonna kick your ass as well until you know and really challenge you and have them around you so that you feel really comfortable. And it goes back to your kind of cohort piece, and every the wonderful stuff that you 2 are doing. But I think it's really important. And now I have that in my life, and I have it.

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Christina: you know, in teams I have one person. I'm always having number 2, 

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Totally agree. I love. Yeah, we talk about like the Personal Advisory Board is sort of the language we would use in the Us. And it's so important. And I love the for people who are listening, the reminder that for the mentor there's a lot of satisfaction in helping the Mentees. And I find that that's important. When I'm talking with younger, especially up and coming people cause

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: it can feel like too much of an ask sometimes towards the other person, just recognizing that there is a bi-directional energy towards that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm curious like ha! Ha! Is. Where was that mentor or other people in your Cabinet? Were they catalyst like, how have? How have having other catalyst leaders in your life impacted you? Do you seek them out with intentionality, or maybe before you didn't have the name for it. But you're like, I need someone who understands this like too muchness that I bring to the table channel. It.

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Christina: I. Yeah, I will always seek out the catalyst. And I think now the role that we have to play is, I'm also finding them. You find them a lot in digital as well, and I'm like, cool. Hi, I think you're this. Let me guide you. I'm here for you, and I've always found it's been really helpful for them as well to set up

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Christina: Thank God, it's Friday digital group. And they were able just to voice their opinions. And they were like, Thank you. This is so lonely, so scary. Building is crazy. And I'm like, Yeah, it is.

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Christina: So I think, yeah, I always seek them out. But I actually would say, I get my. I get my best insights from people that are the absolute opposite profile of me.

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Christina: because I think I've had the same profile of a number 2 for the last, probably 10 years, and I seek it out because I think there's a

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Christina: there's a profile that wants to framework is a little bit more centered, and I can really get calm being around them. But also they're looking for this like ramp up and visionary piece that catalysts give. So I think it's like a beautiful combination. And now I'm kind of also learning how to put a blended mix in a team

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Christina: and naturally, day to day. I gravitate to the catalyst, of course, because you wanna have fun with them and you wanna build. But I think, having that blend is really helpful, really helpful.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): There's just so much I love in what I'm hearing. A question we often get. Christina is, how do you identify your catalyst? And obviously this term for us is new.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): So, looking back, you said, Yeah, I kind of always sought them out. What were you seeking out right before we had a name for it. What did you recognizing people? And how did you do that?

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Christina: I think there were. I defined it, I think.

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Christina: probably about 4 years ago, this word building. There was a building and growing and learning.

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Christina: I mean, when I got these 3 I was like, this is why I'm seeing them. So now, when I interview I'm always like, tell me what motivates. You tell me how you feel about building. And and once I've got them like, yeah, yeah, I'm like, okay, you're one of me. Great. Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Just go off as.

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Christina: And this fearlessness of it is great, and this is, and I think, when depending on where they are on the journey. 

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): And I'm hearing, too. And maybe this is you're not naming. Maybe this person's your number to the number, to the new profile, right? That you want someone who's ready to build a framework, who's more centered. It almost sounds like a translator.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yes, Widget, is that right?

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Christina: Yeah. And

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Christina: I'll tell you this interesting story. 

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Christina: it was at the time I'd been tasked. I've just been given the Us. E-commerce team, and I was tasked to like turn it around, grow it, make it bigger. All this lovely stuff. I've got this team of 40, and I remember she would ring me in the mornings. she I remember she had the strength to tell me. Can I just tell you something that you are scaring everyone. You're scaring the whole team.

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Christina: because every day you come up with a new vision and you're pushing us really far, and they're excitable, but they're really scared of what that job is, 

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Christina: if you feel that you want to do this, and I love you for it, and don't ever change it. I'm really happy for you and I to have our morning calls where you tell me where you want to go next. I will take your thoughts. You can draw them on your scribble pad that I know you've got by your side. You can take a picture, and you can whatsapp it, and I will put it in a slide, and that stays between you and I until we're ready to share it.

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Christina: It was, so powerful as a lesson for me as a leader, and I've never forgotten it, and I check myself quite a lot, and from that I've you're right. It's a translator, but also someone that's brave enough just to be like, I love your vision, Chris, but like it's scary.

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Christina: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): You interview for that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That's the question I wanted, because.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's I ended up with one. I have to give him a shout out Wayne Irwin. He was that person for me, but it's not like almost the catalyst, is easier to identify the Bridgers like. How do you interview for that? How do you find that.

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Christina: Never really put a framework around it about how I'm doing it.

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Christina: I think this is probably a common red thread between all of them have been really excited by my vision. And I I want to work for you like I love what you're doing, and I know I can do this with you and probably been vulnerable with me, is like, I'm not you and I teach me how to get there.

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Christina: And I've been like cool. You're gonna need to teach me how to do this stuff, cause I'm gonna do what I would call frameworking stuff like, I'm gonna give you a vision. You guys just gonna get billed, you know. So maybe it's like a 2 way, honest day. But certainly they've come to me. And

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Christina: and yeah, all 3 of them actually have seeked me out to say, Can I work for you? Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah. Well, when you.

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Christina: Feeling gonna have to.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Work.

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Christina: Yeah, yeah.

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Christina: yeah, let's.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): No! Well.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Do the next podcast Christina, totally.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Dedicated to find find your number 2.

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Christina: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Alright. Okay. So what is one piece of advice that you have to offer up to up and coming catalysts that are navigating change in large organization?

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Christina: Yeah, I'm I'm gonna say, this one line that my previous boss in New York who I dore Andrew.

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Christina: I adore him, and he, I'm a bit going to see him and just being like no one's getting this like I need to go like frustrated. And he was like.

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Christina: just because you feel different than everybody else in the room. It doesn't mean that you're wrong.

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Christina: just know that. And you are allowed to be different in this room, and you are allowed a voice, and you're allowed to want to move things faster than everyone else. It doesn't mean you're mad, and you don't need to feel mad about it.

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Christina: Yeah, it was really good.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Take for that to land!

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Christina: Like quite quickly, it's like I respected in huge meaning. We trusted each other so much that I was like, alright, you're right. Yeah.

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Christina: yeah, power.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: What does it look like to embody that as you're going through that process.

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Christina: Of.

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Christina: I catch myself a lot in the rooms because you do. You feel like you talked about it? You feel so different sometimes.

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Christina: and you see. But just also I found that I'm really quiet now. Sorry, not really quiet. I'm a lot more reflective and quiet, and that piece of like.

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Christina: I don't really speak in a wider meeting unless I feel I've got something to add. But I'm taking notes, and I'm thinking.

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Christina: you know, this would work. This could work, and again it goes back to that. People aren't ready for it sometimes, whereas before, when I was younger, I was always like, Yeah, I see that wise, and I I also be my tempers. Just change fast, but I would also be like as you see, the money, and you see the dots. And in those commercials like, why is no one seen that? There's like 20 million on a table? Wise? Now I'm getting after it. Now I'm like, yep, some money there. This, this is that problem, this I could fix.

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Christina: But instead, I'm just keeping it, and I'm like great. I will work

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Christina: and find a way to do it. And and oddly, I've given myself authority in Mars by part of my strategy is

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Christina: being the person that owns the horizontal working. So that allows me to touch other people's areas. And this isn't like greedy autonomy piece. This is, I see, money and opportunity everywhere. So I want to be able to work with people and connect everything, so that the business is getting the best that they can be in the most efficient. So I think smartly. I found a better way to do it, and everyone's like, Oh, my God, I love the way you've called out this like connecting internal people and horizontal working, and I

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Christina: pulled in a guy into my team who did it at Nike, and I'm like you will help me do this, and he's like. Yes.

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Christina: so I think it's just more like intentional and maybe more strategic way of doing it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Is there a connection there between your ability to do that and the tranquility journey that you had talked about at the beginning of our conversation?

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Christina: Probably I think so, cause I'm just more present now, like I meditate religiously every morning, I think I need to do that as well, because I'm trying to think I'm trying to connect that whole part of me as well. I think it's important, and also like it's important like to have those special people in particular, your team, and, like my boss, really gets it as well of like, where am I going? And

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Christina: everyone's busy. Not everyone needs to hear Christina's voice, and as my mom says, it is not the Christina show, and not everyone needs to star on it. You know.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Dammit, I thought it was the Shannon show, too.

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Christina: yes, Mom, you know how it is.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I love the clarity of that example, because we talk in the, in the book and the work we do about how we can be perceived as arrogant or stubborn. And this can be also the too muchness. And we're so well intentioned. Right? We're just like there's money on the table. Why, why won't you listen? But the story that you're telling about how just a little bit of self management and a little bit of intentionality to slow down to really connect the dots in a way that people are

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: experiencing the value that you're creating connected with the value that they need to create.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: You know when Tracy asked you the question earlier. It's like, Is it slower? I don't. I don't know. But is it more impactful? I mean, it sounds like you've been able to be more impactful by.

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Christina: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That intentionality.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And it sounds like you get a ton of shit done. So, you know.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, i 1 more question about all of that because what I what I struggled with in a in a challenge that I see other catalysts struggling with, is, it's 1 thing for us to have our own moment of reflection about the slowing down and the intentionality. It's another to help a team embody and manifest that. And I'm wondering if you've made a connection between sort of your personal tranquility journey and how you operate your team.

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Christina: And I think that one of the benefits of Mars is they really believe in development. So we get these beautiful moments where we take our teams for 2 days and we go through them like, how are you feeling? Who are you? So we're really for me. I just feel like, we're really connected to people and our bodies and all of that. And so in my sessions with my teams, I've been able to do a bit more like movement with them.

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Christina: and I'm translating that and also talking to them about and talking to them about, you know I will help you do all of this. So what? Where? We winning the wall where we just winning the fight? And but I think it is. It also goes back to that like psychological safety. If I've got your back we don't have to win everything.

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Christina: You can go slower and move. I think it's it's just. It's it's really describing what I want as a leader as well, which I'm really hot on, like I have a presentation when I start like this is me. These are my hot buttons. This is what I care about this. There's a massive red line here, and I'll go crazy about this. I won't, and I'm prepared to coach you and I spend a lot of time coaching my team. I think.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Nice.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I love the ability to do the self-reflection, the the good, the bad, the ugly, the super all the things, and share that team to to create.

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Christina: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That sense of psychological safety and invitation.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Those are all great tools for sort of the junior catalyst on your team. Do you have advice for Junior Catalyst like. What's what would you tell your yourself? You know your 20 year old self

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: to help you sort of be more effective on the journey, and maybe, you know, decrease some of the challenges.

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Christina: Yeah,

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Christina: find. You know, people that you really trust to talk to. I think like they'll find your fellow catalyst like, create that group that you feel safe to kind of be potentially really different in and then, I think, continuing to read and develop, I found that often I wasn't at my best when I wasn't learning, and I don't know. You can tell me if this is a big strand of being a catalyst, but

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Christina: I wanted to constantly learn and grow, and if I wasn't getting it, the certain companies I've worked in my own moments where I wasn't getting it. So then, rather than being like, Oh, how do I learn my topic more? How do I read more about digital and commerce instead? I would like I was. I was probably a liability.

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Christina: I'd say, Yeah, I I probably was acting up. So I think, do do your reading, and I occupy your mind, and like, if you have to solo plan like, I've always got paper next to me, I'm gonna start planning where I'm going next, like, do that work. And then

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Christina: And then the other bit that I would say is like, really, if you can try and own being a catalyst, because

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Christina: really good leaders recruit catalyst because they are everything that you want, like the bravery, the strategic thinking that in the weeks of the work, like the really great high low that Jeff Bezos always talks about.

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Christina: And so I think, like really own that because that's what we're all trying to recruit on now like this is the.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: This is.

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Christina: Which this is our time.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's our time. How do I.

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Christina: Time it really is, and I.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Christina: So now, you know, I see so many people like see my friends when I like gone to this job and this, and I'm like, my God, that's so, not you. Why did you say that in an interview? Just be you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yes, that is great advice. I think that's really great advice, for bu don't fit cause. That'll definitely. It's hard enough to find a great place for a catalyst to work right now

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: do yourself the favor of starting off a line. All right. Last quick question, favorite, famous catalyst, past or present. And why.

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Christina: Steve Jobs. I I just think he was really clear on his vision. I love his Harvard commend speech on joining up Dopps.

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Christina: If you haven't watched it, watch it. It's really anchored me into cause. Our

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Christina: career is not often linear at all. So like how he joined up his dots of his career I love, and I and I often have thought about that like, why did I have a business? Why did I fail? What did it mean? And beautiful? Beautiful work? And I also just think.

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Christina: what I admire is

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Christina: he? Lots of people can think he was quite cold. And wasn't the best leader, and I've subsequently read quite a few articles and books about the people that he took did take under his wing, and I kind of yes, he was out for himself, and yes, greatness with Apple, but he really did match of those those folks that he really believed in, and they they kind of paid him back in return with that with that brilliance. I think he's he's a good catalyst for us.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thank you, and had massive, positive impact on the world. So.

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Christina: Wow! No.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Christina. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute delight. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.

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Christina: Thank you. Wonderful to talk.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And to our listeners. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to learn more about how to create big, bold, powerful change in the world, make sure to check out our book, move fast, break, shit, burnout, and go to our website at catalyst constellations.com.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): And if you enjoyed this episode, which I did take 10 seconds to rate it on itunes. Spotify stitcher wherever you listen to your podcast if you have other catalysts in your life with the share button, send a link there way.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thanks! Again.