Shellery Ebron, Senior Director of Corporate Innovation at RTI International: Dreamers That Do

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I'm Tracy Lovejoy, the co-CEO of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalysts to create bold, powerful change in the world. This is our podcast, move, fast, break, shipburn out where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully lead transformation in large organizations. I am incredibly delighted today to have Sheller Ibron with us Sheller.

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Shellery Ebron: Hello!

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Shelly is currently the senior director of Corporate Innovation, leading a newly formed innovation Enablement team at Rti International, a nonprofit Research Institute that's focused on solving critical global issues through practical knowledge application. With her expertise in policy and digital health, she drives change by facilitating experimentation with innovative solutions, and she loves helping leaders and staff across the organization

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: shatter, perceived constraints and open their minds to new approaches. If anything, screamed Catalyst, it's that today.

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Shellery Ebron: Thank you for having me.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: So I'd love to have you tell us more of your journey. That's just, you know, kind of a tiny little highlight. Can you share some of your career highlights that you feel proud of that help us see your catalytic nature.

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Shellery Ebron: Hmm! Great question. So I would say, I think my catalyst moments come

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Shellery Ebron: or go all the way back to Undergrad

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Shellery Ebron: and leaving undergrad. So I was a microbiology major, and I realized pretty early on that. I the lab wasn't for me. But I love the science and love the technical depth and learning. And so I sought out just other opportunities that were not in that linear career pathway of a microbiologist. And so I landed an internship at the Centers for Disease Control

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Shellery Ebron: the summer before my senior year, where I could really apply the scientific knowledge that I was gaining to

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Shellery Ebron: syndromic surveillance and monitoring food poisoning, for example, and disease outbreaks. And so that was really my 1st catalyst moment, where I say that I probably just

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Shellery Ebron: broke the mold and again didn't follow that linear halfway

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Shellery Ebron: and shortly after undergrad. I remember I worked for a couple of years doing informatics, working for a product company as well and wanted to. I just saw the opportunity that came from. I was working

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Shellery Ebron: for an electronic health record vendor at the time, and during that time the Federal Government had made 19 billion dollars in incentives available to help clinicians move from paper records to digital records, and I saw the impact that policy had on driving innovation. And so I wanted to get more training in

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Shellery Ebron: health policy and evaluation.

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Shellery Ebron: I really saw myself as like presenting on Capitol Hill one day. And so I went back. I quit my day job altogether, went back to get my master's in public health

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Shellery Ebron: and did that, and this was my 1st stop out of graduate school.

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Shellery Ebron: and then I will say, lastly, there were probably 2 other moments during my time here.

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Shellery Ebron: I worked, you know, as a researcher ran programs and coordinated programs here. But I really started to ask more and more about

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Shellery Ebron: strategy.

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Shellery Ebron: Why and how do we decide to pursue certain types of work

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Shellery Ebron: or for certain clients? And I started asking, Can't we do more to influence the client our chances of winning

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Shellery Ebron: ahead of the proposal dropping and so

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Shellery Ebron: I just kept my eye internally on different strategy roles, and a role opened in our to run the innovation program.

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Shellery Ebron: And so I made the jump from this technical science

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Shellery Ebron: role more into the strategy business Development Realm

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Shellery Ebron: and really found my groove here. With a lot of support from

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Shellery Ebron: peers and leaders. I just realized I really love swimming in the ambiguity.

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Shellery Ebron: I'm a person who loves taking things from 0 to one.

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Shellery Ebron: By the time we're talking about optimization like, it's probably not for me anymore. And I just need to recognize that and hand it off to someone else by them. And so I think those are

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Shellery Ebron: just a couple of catalyst moments that I've had where it's just like, Wow, when I look back, those are the things that have really shaped my career journey.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Absolutely. And it's you said, you know, as you were running the programs, and you began to think about strategy, you were asking why. But I also hear you were asking, why not.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Right?

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Which we see as such a classic. Element of that catalytic lens right like, why is you're asking that, too? Right? That's the the curious, the learner. But the why not? Is the seeing something that other people don't.

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Shellery Ebron: Right.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Great.

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Shellery Ebron: Yes.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And so in your 1st 2 examples, I love the catalytic moments of you know. I don't think that this is my path. I am not meant for the linear world, and I'm seeing more, and I'm going to go back and get school. But I'm curious when you 1st connected with part of what you shared in that 3rd one that you love swimming in ambiguity and the optimization moments. Once we get there, those aren't for you were those always there? Or did that kind of awareness or way of being come later.

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Shellery Ebron: Say, I've I've thought about this a lot.

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Shellery Ebron: I want to say it came later.

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Shellery Ebron: I think that

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Shellery Ebron: earlier in my career, just by nature of the work that we do. We did a lot of predictable work.

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Shellery Ebron: We did a lot of

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Shellery Ebron: evaluation work which is really powerful and incredible when you're developing policy.

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Shellery Ebron: And so is sorely needed. Right? But I

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Shellery Ebron: just once we started doing more implementation and more consulting style projects for our clients. That's really what just opened my eyes to kind of a whole new

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Shellery Ebron: world, because you had to figure out everything. There was no playbook

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Shellery Ebron: and to me, that's exciting to have a blank. Canvas versus you know the sops detailed already

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And I asked that because we've never done the research. But we have all kinds of hypotheses about. You know it's a catalyst born.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Catalyst made. And so I'm curious. If I got to ask the folks that were in your household when you were growing up.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: would these traits be a surprise to them like? Did they see them when you were little, that you kind of loved the blank canvas, and that you were questioning the Why not? Or did you know? Would they say, Yeah, no. That came later for celery.

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Shellery Ebron: I would they would not be a surprise, I guarantee so you might be onto something. I also think about my own children, too.

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Shellery Ebron: One of my kids 1st born is a rule follower, I mean, everything has to, you know.

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Shellery Ebron: be in order. People have to pay attention, follow the rules. There is no gray area he has to clarify.

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Shellery Ebron: The OP. My daughter is the opposite and so I always say to my husband, you know you and my son. Bring the structure, and we bring the vibes so it's a yang, and yang.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I absolutely love that the structure and the vibes.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, one sounds like a party to me. I have to say

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: just saying so. I'm hearing it woven into what you're sharing. But I'd love to hear in your own words. How do you relate to the concept of catalyst? And how do you feel like it impacts you as a leader?

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Shellery Ebron: I relate to the concept of catalyst because I always

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Shellery Ebron: I think it's important to get the ball rolling. Always try to paint the vision for people like you said. I asked, why not

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Shellery Ebron: and and why a lot? I'm highly curious, and I always try to plant the seed with people. What if?

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Shellery Ebron: What if we did.

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Shellery Ebron: you know? And so that's that's usually my. And and not only just my peers. I try to plant those seeds with. You know other leaders around the organization, too, and my executive sponsors as well. Just why not? Why couldn't it be us

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Shellery Ebron: and so that's how I relate to the term catalyst. And then the second question you asked me was.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How does it support you in your lead?

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Shellery Ebron: In my leadership. I will say one lesson that I finally stepped into recently. You know, after years

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Shellery Ebron: of not trusting my instinct, but

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Shellery Ebron: at the end of the day

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Shellery Ebron: you know, no one has the answers. When it comes to innovation transformation. There are best practices.

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Shellery Ebron: Sure, you know, there are

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Shellery Ebron: theoretical constructs that have worked well, and there are methods that we can borrow. But when it comes to your specific organization, if you're leading something new, something transformational.

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Shellery Ebron: No one has the answer. And so

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Shellery Ebron: really, I've tried to get, you know, our Advisory Board and our team to not wait

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Shellery Ebron: for the perfect information, or from

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Shellery Ebron: buy in from everyone. And just let's do and so

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Shellery Ebron: what I really value my phrases, I value dreamers who do so, I will say, just

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Shellery Ebron: you know, it's really impacted my career and empowering

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Shellery Ebron: me to act. And also now empowering my team as well.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How do you do this?

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Right? So no one has the answers. And you're trying to get people to not wait.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How do you get people to not wait? Shelly.

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Shellery Ebron: Good question.

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Shellery Ebron: I really, this is where some structure comes in.

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Shellery Ebron: So what I found

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Shellery Ebron: it works for me at least, and Susan can vouch for this. I always have the end goal in mind.

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Shellery Ebron: and I have certain mile marker progress milestones, you know, by the next executive team update.

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Shellery Ebron: I want to have these 3 things accomplished, and don't put so much constraint around. How?

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Shellery Ebron: How we'll get those things accomplished.

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Shellery Ebron: But I know that this is what needs to be accomplished by then, and so I usually try to

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Shellery Ebron: keep that in mind like it. It gives me enough structure, but also enough freedom to.

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Shellery Ebron: you know. Pivot where needed. Into.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, just nix plans or nix anything that we're doing. If it's not working.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I love that combination structure with freedom to pivot.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And so, as we're turning this wisdom, have the end goal in mind. Have the milestone markers structured with the freedom to pivot.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How are you using this with the folks

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: to help them? Not wait right.

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Shellery Ebron: That's it.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: You know you, is it sharing the end goal like, what does that actually look like? Because I know in this last year you went from piloting innovation in a business unit.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: To being asked to scale this organization wide and so clearly, you are doing things that are successful

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: that are getting people to jump and to trust you.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Do that. And so I would love to, you know, kind of help unpack a little

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: how this structure with freedom to pivot, actually shows up.

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Shellery Ebron: I'll say, I focus a lot on relationships and building trust with people.

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Shellery Ebron: And it's not just one off

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Shellery Ebron: conversations either. I really invest a lot of time in.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, doing coffee chats with people on a monthly or every 6 week basis and really understanding where they are kind of in their innovation journey.

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Shellery Ebron: And then 2. What's really helped?

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Shellery Ebron: I would say. Kind of negotiate the pace of change

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Shellery Ebron: internally is we built a roadmap.

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Shellery Ebron: So yes, we can say that we want innovation to be the.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, a contributor or driver of growth and impact.

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Shellery Ebron: That's the end goal.

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Shellery Ebron: And so we build a roadmap that says like every year, Here here are the pieces that we're investing in. Here are the pieces that we're putting in place. And so building that roadmap, I think, just helps with again negotiating that pace of change, the resourcing we'll need, and having those discussions, too. Like, if

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Shellery Ebron: if we are going to do X next year here's what we need to do today

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And is this something that you're sharing with people I'm assuming.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And tell me, kind of the form that it takes is this, like a Powerpoint slide like.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Shellery Ebron: Right now it's a Powerpoint slide. And so I'm thinking about.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, as we we've we shared it via Powerpoint via with our executive leaders and our business unit heads.

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Shellery Ebron: But I wonder, as we roll this out to the broader organization, how we might

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Shellery Ebron: kind of shape the the roadmap and also invite input as well. So by the time we roll this out to the broader organization we will have had

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Shellery Ebron: a couple of months under our belt. And so that's a time to to say, Hey, this is what we've done

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Shellery Ebron: in looking ahead at our roadmap. What other things might you want to add.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I love that so it's not just the path ahead, but it's also kind of looking at

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: some of the the things that have already happened.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And then bringing them in and letting them place things on the.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That's amazing.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: It's really aligned to a tool that we use in our class we call actual. We don't call action mapping. We take that directly from positive psychology. But we have people build what you're calling.

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Shellery Ebron: Right now.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: As they begin to vision anything with a long term goal of using this to help bring others along with them. And so it sounds.

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Shellery Ebron: Sounds, like.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Have a refined, amazing structure where this is already successful, and I love that idea of making sure some of the wins are already.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Any other advice in the roadmapping that you would share.

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Shellery Ebron: I do think it's important.

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Shellery Ebron: It was important to build the roadmap so that people could see. You know, this is how we could get to. I always hear I heard a lot

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Shellery Ebron: from our executive leaders like, you know, our our innovations are too incremental. We're

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Shellery Ebron: you know, we want bigger innovations. And

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Shellery Ebron: that's great. Those are outcomes. But you have to build the system in order to get there and to enable those outcomes. And so it was a great tool to be able to illustrate the how

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Shellery Ebron: how we would get there. And it's also a great tool to negotiate with your executive sponsor, too, on again.

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Shellery Ebron: pace of change, resourcing level of commitment like, are you willing to commit here by year? 3,

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Shellery Ebron: or are we do like? Are we doing open innovation by year? 3. Or are we still going to just focus solely on internal and so that's

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Shellery Ebron: it's driven a lot of those discussions, too?

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Love it so you can kind of put a stake in the ground of.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Maybe we're here by year. 3. What do you think.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Far too fast.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Oh, amazing! I feel like you could be teaching our class right now. So.

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Shellery Ebron: Incredible.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Incredible gift, incredible.

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Shellery Ebron: Not quite.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: So would love to have you share as well what are some of the biggest challenges that you've faced as a catalyst executive and leader.

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Shellery Ebron: Great question, who?

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Shellery Ebron: I will say, one of the Aha that I've had recently. You know, we are a science based

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Shellery Ebron: data, driven research organization because we have to be

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Shellery Ebron: and so recently went through our leadership development program or high potential program in, we assessed our change style.

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Shellery Ebron: And there are. There are 3 categories.

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Shellery Ebron: One is conserver.

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Shellery Ebron: Pragmatis is in the middle, and then originator.

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Shellery Ebron: And so it was so enlightening when we took the you know assessment, and when we got in the room together we kind of lined up, based on our scores, and I was the farthest on the originator setting.

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Shellery Ebron: And so it was so enlightening when I was talking to my executive coach. Because I'm a true originator

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Shellery Ebron: and

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Shellery Ebron: an environment where people are kind of on the other end of the continuum. Maybe they're pragmatists, but most people were pragmatists or conservatives.

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Shellery Ebron: and so just learning how to

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Shellery Ebron: flex my change style like I can't.

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Shellery Ebron: I can't. I won't say that I can't. But

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Shellery Ebron: learning how to paint the vision for people in a way that's going to be palatable for them

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Shellery Ebron: is a big challenge. So you know, I may not lead with.

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Shellery Ebron: We should launch 10 startup companies by 2030, right? Even though that's what I think we should be doing.

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Shellery Ebron: But

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Shellery Ebron: I may just start where people are like we need to incorporate innovation into. You know, our existing project. Here's a framework. Here's a design sprint approach that

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Shellery Ebron: you know we could bring to your existing work just to, you know.

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Shellery Ebron: Bring you along and show you the power of this approach. So.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That's brilliant. I'm curious in general. In what was kind of the percentages in your high potential group between the 3 groups.

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Shellery Ebron: I can't remember per se, but I would say most people were in the middle and then we had a lot. We had many people in the middle on the conservative side, too. But again, we work at a research institute. Most people are.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Fair.

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Shellery Ebron: Data driven. And I'm so

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Shellery Ebron: I can't remember the the how that all flowed. But I do remember most people were

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Shellery Ebron: in the middle on the other side of the continuum.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, it's interesting. Shannon and I, you know, we help build programs and organizations. And and

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: sometimes we are working with folks in human resources where the programs we're running. It's it's almost a form of a high potential program.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: However, what you're pointing to is, you know, we are identifying catalysts, because to

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: change that, we create, we think, how could your high potentials be anyone but catalysts like you need people to help respond with what's being thrown at you. So it's so interesting to think about, you know, like high potential programs really are helping

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: find that balance still.

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Shellery Ebron: It is such.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: An interesting way, you know, for me to think about of.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How do organizations today define high potential.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Because I I do have a obviously a bias

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: that the you know the high potential person of the future has to help us originate has to help us. Pivot has to help us ask, why not.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Keep an open mind. Tracy.

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Shellery Ebron: Keep an open mind.

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Shellery Ebron: I would say that it's it's certainly important to when I when you think about building a team right? And I, I think about

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Shellery Ebron: building my team like, yes, I'm always going to be the person driving

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Shellery Ebron: the big, bold capital. I, you know, innovation or the big transformation.

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Shellery Ebron: but also who cares if I look back in? No one else's behind me or beside me?

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Shellery Ebron: And so I think, you know, I definitely

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Shellery Ebron: want to balance that on my team. And also when I go and get buy in and input from people, I try to find the conservers and

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Shellery Ebron: see how this vision

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Shellery Ebron: How they can poke holes! I invite them to poke holes in it.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Oh, what a great piece of wisdom is that as a a catalyst! And

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I'm making an assumption that we'd end up seeing a lot of catalysts fall into the originator. I don't. I don't know this particular assessment.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And so a piece of wisdom is.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Once you have a solid draft.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Find the conservers, maybe also the pragmatists

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: and have them help. You see

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: the challenges and poke holes because you may have the rose colored, but glasses on right like.

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Shellery Ebron: Yep.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: You're swimming in the ambiguity. You're seeing the potential of the future.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And they're like Whoa.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Any other wisdom that has emerged for you as you have had this continuum come to light like, what do we need to think about that allows us to be more successful with the conservers of the pragmatists, or that we leverage them to balance out our natural tendencies.

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Shellery Ebron: I think I would just

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Shellery Ebron: kind of double down on the point that I just made. So when you do, have I? I usually try to get the draft 70% of the way there and invite input

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Shellery Ebron: from others. I think it's a a way to help, you know, co-create the vision.

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Shellery Ebron: The downside, though, is that's going to take longer.

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Shellery Ebron: And it's highly collaborative. People see a lot of the sausage making. When I do things right. You're seeing the multiple drafts, and it can kind of feel like you're this Tasmanian devil.

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Shellery Ebron: But there's really an end game in in mind. But you. You just people are, gonna see? Multiple

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Shellery Ebron: iterations of something. They're gonna see it evolve when they're working with me. And so it's just something I try to be mindful of number one, you know. Just be patient when you

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Shellery Ebron: invite input from others, but to and

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Shellery Ebron: kind of get a sense of their level of sausage making before you jump in. So some people are okay with that, and others not so much.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That's a great point. Have you had moments where you didn't get to 70% and slow down and invite feedback? I'm wondering what happened.

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Shellery Ebron: I can't remember a time.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Okay.

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Shellery Ebron: When I did not. I have seen that in action, though

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Shellery Ebron: I've seen that in action and does not bode well.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: No.

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Shellery Ebron: Because people just or like, How do we get here? So.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah. I wondered if you had a story, because we hear quite often the point that you were just sharing so eloquently this idea that I don't want to have to, maybe do some of these extra steps, because I don't want to have to slow down. There's this sense of of deep drive and urgency and

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: purpose attached.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That we're doing and so slowing down feels like somehow we're not fulfilling our

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: What we feel called to do.

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Shellery Ebron: Yep.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And so in the stories that we've heard is that it may feel like slowing down. But the truth is, it's actually what allows you to get to the finish line.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That when we don't do that we see people get fired.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: We see not enough people come along so you don't get resourced.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: We see, you know, pissing the wrong people off. And so you.

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Shellery Ebron: Yes.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Shift a job internally.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And so the idea of slowing down is false.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: actually, because it's actually doing the steps that will lead you to success.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: It sounds like you already had that intuitive ability, and you didn't have to learn the hard way.

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Shellery Ebron: Sometimes. I'm also a little, you know. I try to be mindful, too, that

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Shellery Ebron: sometimes it's just it does. It's not gonna make a lot of sense to people until they do it.

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Shellery Ebron: So until.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Dreamers that do this is your ticket.

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Shellery Ebron: Nice.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: So help help me understand what that looks like in practice, because can you get a conserver

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: to begin to do it?

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Shellery Ebron: If the data support it. So I I would say that I would try to.

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Shellery Ebron: I definitely want conservers input

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Shellery Ebron: or non catalyst input on the vision right? I want them to poke holes and play devil's advocate. Tell me why it won't work

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Shellery Ebron: but a really, you know, a couple of months down the road or in another year. Once we have some outcomes to show, and we start talking about the data behind it.

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Shellery Ebron: That's when it's time to go back and try to get their buying input to to implement. So.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That's so interesting. So you're getting them involved from the very beginning.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Helping them, you know, calling on their strengths rather than bringing them a big, flashy vision where you're gonna turn them off, saying.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I know who I am. I know where some of my my blind spots are, and so I need your help to help me flesh this out.

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Shellery Ebron: Yep.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And then kind of

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: go and do with the folks who maybe are a little further on the pragmatism into the originator L.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And then, once you have fleshed out the problem, space collected the data, understood it more.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Now you're ready to go back to enlist them, to

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: become part of the the process.

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Shellery Ebron: brilliant. So you're bringing them on the journey. But you're being really staged about the moments where they're going to be a part of it.

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Shellery Ebron: yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Love it.

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Shellery Ebron: Oh, good! I'm glad we'll see if it works.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah. Yeah. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Well, I mean you have. You have some solid success behind you? Shelly.

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Shellery Ebron: So I think.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: We have. We have some evidence that that points to positive things ahead.

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Shellery Ebron: That's true.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: My favorite and last question from our discussions

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: is to find out who your favorite catalyst, past or present, is

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: that has inspired you, and why they stand out to you.

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Shellery Ebron: Oh, great question! Do I only have to pick one.

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Shellery Ebron: Okay.

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Shellery Ebron: So 2 or 3 people come to mind

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Shellery Ebron: number one. I work with the fabulous, incredible, inspiring

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Shellery Ebron: scientist. Her name is Dr. Stephanie Hawkins.

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Shellery Ebron: But she is a brilliant black woman who has

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Shellery Ebron: stood up a new research unit called the Transformative Research Unit on Equity.

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Shellery Ebron: Here.

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Shellery Ebron: And I just admire how she brings her authenticity to.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, really change in our organization for the better.

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Shellery Ebron: So shout out to what she hears this Dr. Stephanie Hawkins internally at Rti.

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Shellery Ebron: I would also say externally, so I just I guess the one catalyst moment I didn't mention was, you know, once I was in the innovation role for a while. I said, Huh!

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Shellery Ebron: I could use a business degree.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That one.

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Shellery Ebron: I just wrapped up my Mba, and so I have read so many.

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Shellery Ebron: you know, case studies. But one case study in particular, that really stood out to me was Kathy Fish at Procter and Gamble.

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Shellery Ebron: and how she led their lean innovation. Renewal, if you will. And it was a similar approach.

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Shellery Ebron: Similar kind of circumstance where the organization needed an innovation renewal.

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Shellery Ebron: She didn't have positional authority over the business unit heads. She had to lead a movement within the organization, with the coalition of the willing in partnership with other growth functions. And so I really was inspired by kind of the the system, the pieces of the puzzle that she put in place

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Shellery Ebron: and hope to meet her someday, and just shake her hand and say that I definitely am

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Shellery Ebron: paying attention to her blueprint.

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Shellery Ebron: And lastly, I will say, Doctor Kazakia Corbett, who developed the Covid vaccine. And so I think just

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Shellery Ebron: again, that combination of really technical depth, science, the authenticity.

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Shellery Ebron: I just admire that. So.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: That's an amazing list. And I love that. It spans. You know, from the highest into folks that are in case studies to

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: that is inspiring you and driving transformation within your organization.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Maybe the best list I've heard.

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Shellery Ebron: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: So thank you, and thank you so much salary for taking time with me today I am so excited for for this conversation and for helping to deepen the understanding. We have especially about things like the roadmap you've made it so

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: really tactically clear leverage that in really simple and powerful ways.

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Shellery Ebron: I'm glad. Thank you for having me.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And to our listening audience. Thank you so much for being with us. If you'd like to learn more about how to create bold, powerful change in the world. Be sure to check out our book, move fast, break ship, burnout, or go to our website at catalystconstellations.com. Because I know you enjoyed this episode as much as I have talking to celery. Take a few seconds to rate it on itunes, spotify stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts and hit the share button to share this with all the catalysts in your life.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Thanks again.