John Bryson SVP of Startup Services and Venture Banking, Banc of California —Skate to Where the Puck Is Going

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hi! I'm Shannon Lucas, one of the co-ceos of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalyst to create bold, powerful change in the world.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: This is our podcast move, fast, break ship burnout, where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully lead transformation in large organizations. And today, I'm very excited to have time with my friend John Bryson.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: John has more than a decade of experience in operational roles at early stage software companies managing business development in various sectors, including advertising and marketing supply, chain, Fintech and Banking. He's currently a senior member of the Venture Banking group at Bank of California, where he leads early stage startup services from the bank's New York City office. In addition to working closely with investors and companies at the pre-seed and seed stage, John is building a partnership with Bank of California's internal product team

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: to refine its digital transformation. Welcome, John.

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John Bryson: Thank you for having me wonderful to be here.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Our pre conversation was already titillating. So let's jump right in. I would love to hear. That's the short version of your bio, and everyone can check you out on Linkedin. But I'd love to hear about your catalytic journey right, maybe sharing a few career highlights that you're proud of, or maybe where you failed that help us see your catalytic nature.

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John Bryson: Yeah, so the

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John Bryson: the the beginning. I'm gonna date myself. And a lot of this stuff is not on my linkedin page. But I started in the entertainment space.

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John Bryson: look quite literally in the mailroom.

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John Bryson: That was a part of the I was a part of the William Morris trainee program. And that's where you start.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Never actually heard like, that's a trope. But I've never heard anyone actually do it. That's amazing.

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John Bryson: Yeah, I went through it. I mean, this is, it's old. It was old school like it. It. I'm not sure what the program looks like today, because I think there's been a lot of like lawsuits in terms of you know, fair pay and everything else. But I I came up through that system. You know, very early on, and learned the value of hard work. Learn the value of networking.

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John Bryson: learn the value of being on top of things and and doing what you say you're gonna do. And I think those are all lessons that have kind of carried me through my career

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John Bryson: even. And while I was there, you know, you're always jockeying for position, trying to find the right place to kind of get a toehold within the organization as well as as maybe finding new business lines, I helped start their their digital media group, which at the time was brand new. It didn't exist.

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John Bryson: and I think that was probably the 1st

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John Bryson: opportunity to be a catalyst for change. I I

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John Bryson: the way it came about was I was working on a desk that was in the commercials and endorsement space

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John Bryson: and we were seeing opportunities for again. I'm gonna I'm gonna this is really gonna date me. But ringtones.

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John Bryson: you know, as mobile phones were becoming a new device.

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John Bryson: For content. There were companies that wanted to license celebrities for for content or celebrity content. For, you know, distribution.

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John Bryson: I saw, I thought, you know, this is gonna be this, this needs to be its own department at the end of the day

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John Bryson: because the phone is gonna turn into a media device that everyone is going to have

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John Bryson: so I I put together a white paper. I in terms of like where we are as an organization. Why this needs to happen, why we should be paying more more attention to it because some of the deals that we're coming across we're we're actually quite lucrative.

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John Bryson: There was at the time Verizon wanted to come in and and release a music artist next single as content on the phone. And they were offering a 7 figure deal.

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John Bryson: So you know, the opportunities were there at the time. The agency wasn't, didn't understand it well enough, because and no one wanted to do these deals because

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John Bryson: no one wanted to get locked into something that could potentially get them fired. So understandable. But but the the space was super interesting, and I felt like, this is the future.

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John Bryson: So I I put together a paper of like, what are what are the opportunities here, you know, basically a swot analysis

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John Bryson: and started running it around to some of the senior leaders at William Morris, and which eventually led to starting the group. I was, you know, very, very young. I was an assistant at the time. You know.

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John Bryson: what the hell did I know about anything

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John Bryson: but was able to get be a part of starting this this group and that felt

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John Bryson: amazing. It was it just? It felt like the right thing to do. It felt like.

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John Bryson: you know, I was an entrepreneur kind of within this

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John Bryson: complicated and hierarchical system. And it was sort of like, you know. In a way, it was. It was definitely creating change.

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John Bryson: and it was monetizing

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John Bryson: our talent roster in a way that that people hadn't thought about like I was able to get. One of the 1st deals I did was for a comedy writer.

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John Bryson: and it was someone who wanted

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John Bryson: someone to write lines, for you know how they had celebrity voice over

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John Bryson: doing doing directions. So like, you know, you, you have these direction devices that

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John Bryson: that you could type in the address, and you could have, like Mr. T. Tell you how to get get home, or something like that.

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John Bryson: Though one of those companies wanted a comedy writer to write the lines for for Mr. T.

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John Bryson: And so one of the 1st deals that I brokered. It was like a nothing deal. But but I was like this actually is so interesting.

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John Bryson: And anyway, that was probably the 1st 1st digital deal that that William Morris got to do, which I probably don't get credit for. But it it was. It really was the 1st deal.

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John Bryson: Oh, my God!

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John Bryson: Through that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah. Keep going.

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John Bryson: Yeah, I recognize that. You know. Eventually, at some point like, you know, William Morris was behind the 8 ball in terms of like making moves.

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John Bryson: And I was like, if I'm gonna get ahead

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John Bryson: like everything. At that time it was early 2 thousands. Everything at that time was changing like you had.

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John Bryson: Music was being decimated by online distribution. You know, film and TV were next

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John Bryson: the mobile phone was becoming obviously a bigger part of people's lives.

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John Bryson: But you know, is that this agent, this are 100 year old agency. That was just like, well, we're here to kind of like. Manage the broker the deals, and be almost like an Hr. Department or a recruiter. For you know, on behalf of our clients.

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John Bryson: not really, technologically, that that savvy? I was like, well, the world is moving pretty quick in terms of the technology side. So I was like, this is probably where things are going. The old Wayne Gretzky quote, you go, you skate to where the Puck is going, not not, you know where it is.

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John Bryson: So I I left to kind of learn sort of like, the the more like the digital content space.

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John Bryson: And you know how was content being monetized.

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John Bryson: When you're doing behavioral targeting, you know, using online data to individuals like, what? What did that really mean? Because, like, you know, that was going to disrupt like the Nielsen system?

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John Bryson: In terms of ratings and everything else. All of a sudden you have digital capability of tracking

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John Bryson: people and being able to deliver them content, based off of their their likes and dislikes and everything else that's super interesting. This is obviously like where the world is going, who knows the most about this space.

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John Bryson: and you know, for better or worse, like the online

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John Bryson: ad tech space seem to have like a better handle on it than

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John Bryson: someone at you know going to Nbc. Or wherever.

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John Bryson: So I was like, I have to. I have to learn this like this is where it's going. So I I found a job in as a sales guy

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John Bryson: selling ad tech, and it was like one of the 1st ad tech platforms, and then was in that world for a few years, and until that kind of got

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John Bryson: busted up for for different reasons, mainly because the advertisers are like we don't want 3rd parties taking biting into our our margins and then you know that that kind of ended it.

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John Bryson: you know. From there I went to a Fintech company. Called fast pay. That was doing receivables, financing for companies in the media space. I'd never done anything in finance. So it was all new to me.

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John Bryson: You know, learning about loans and lines of credit and

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John Bryson: doing your diligence on companies, and and making sure that they were going to be credit, worthy, etc. That was all

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John Bryson: a new new skill sets.

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John Bryson: you know, working with with a team that had more of a finance background and all that type of stuff

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John Bryson: that that was sort of my 1st foray into something that had anything to do with finance. And then I did that ran sort of business development for the the East coast for them, and built up a good amount of business, and then was kind of looking for something that would give me a a broader platform to reach the call it bigger technology space. Just because I was only focused on digital media.

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John Bryson: You know what else is out there and started talking to Banks.

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John Bryson: I didn't have a traditional banking background. Obviously, I didn't come up through any of their programs, but I knew the ecosystem in New York the tech ecosystem pretty well

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John Bryson: and could help on on the business development side, and

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John Bryson: Was able to sell myself into into a bank that was starting a a tech group

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John Bryson: for the most part, and was there for for a number of years, until that bank sold off and then found my way to Pacwest, which eventually became Bank of California. And I've been here ever since.

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John Bryson: you know all with the approach of.

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John Bryson: I think, with with the through line with with everyone has always been to to really kind of find the value

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John Bryson: outside of just banking. I think banking can be a very commoditized product, depending on what what it is that you're doing and what you're offering you. It's very relationship based, very. You know. It's figuring out.

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John Bryson: how can I be of of good service to my clientele where they want to work with me, and I wanna work with them and and be helpful, etc.

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John Bryson: So in that sense I've kind of kept the catalyst spark alive in terms of thinking through.

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John Bryson: You know. How can I drive more value for the clients that I want to work with, and that's

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John Bryson: you know. I'm very, very, very lucky to be in a place where they allow me to stretch my wings and kind of

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John Bryson: build on that idea.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Listening to your story. I'm going to posit that. It's not luck, because you have moved with intentionality in a way, you know, not in a traditional way that you know, and we're taught like, Hey, here's your figure out. Your 20 year career path like that, isn't you? But you. It sounds like you've had a lot of intentionality. So I'm not surprised that you're at a place where you're like I get to do this next thing that I love to do.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm going to let you choose your own adventure, John, because you had so many super interesting ideas. There's too many to actually for us to have a conversation about today, so maybe we'll have to have another conversation. But I want to pull out some of the things that I think are super interesting. I'll just give the highlights, and then you get to pick and we can double click. You started off by talking about hard work, which is super interesting, because while catalyst

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: deliver results, and we're known as the like, get stuff done people we actually haven't had a conversation about how you have to deliver, and the hard work that comes from I mean that we need to put into to be successful catalysts. So that's 1.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Then you talked about. Look. I saw this opportunity in this company, and it was a total white space opportunity, where no one really even understood it. So I put together the white paper with the numbers had to find someone who sponsored it. This is super timely, too. I mean, it's something that catalysts are always up against is having this conversation today about how

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: we, you know, like people right now, are being catalyst. A lot of them are being charged with help us develop our AI strategy. But help us figure out how much cost slash efficiency, you know, cost savings we're gonna get. And the numbers are like.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I mean, those aren't easy numbers to come up with. We're often like on the forefront of something where, like the Tam or our ability to capture that is fuzzy at best. So that's 2. Number 3 is you went from like industry to industry to industry, with intentionality, like, Oh, once I saw this white space I want, I learned digital. Then I wanted to understand, like the behavior behind the digital. I'm wondering about like how you navigated that. And if imposter syndrome came up

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: then you talked about sort of connected to that. The high tension, the intentional hypotheses like this is the next thing I want to test.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: As I go move to a next job and then the final one is also just super interesting, like, you've had this big career in tech. And as you land in these amazing places you're like, actually, it's all about the people.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So there you go. Which one do you want to unpack first? st

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John Bryson: Well, I I think the imposter syndrome is an important thing to tackle so for anyone that

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John Bryson: may want to start creating change. I think it's a it. That step to starting is huge.

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John Bryson: because you may feel that you're under qualified

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John Bryson: to do it, and I would say that when I did it at William Morris. I certainly was underqualified. I didn't have a business background. I was a philosophy, Major. What I know.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, we didn't make it to process that.

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John Bryson: There's no there was no structure. I didn't. I hadn't even taken an accounting class, or even like a business class. I think I had, like an international negotiations class. And that was it. But so like the idea of putting together a plan for this old ancient hierarchical organization. It's stodgy, and people still wore suits every day.

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John Bryson: you know, that was intimidating, and but I the opportunity really drove me to to try it.

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John Bryson: And that that was a big step for me personally, I you know. And then I I'd say, like the yeah, the switch to digital media.

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John Bryson: There was imposter syndrome as well, what did I know about technology? What did I know about understanding how data was collected? What is data data on a 1st party level? Second party? 3, rd what is that? Who are these 3rd party data providers? And and how are they making so much money selling this

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John Bryson: ether, you know, to different companies

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John Bryson: that one I overcame by memorizing the sales pitch that the CEO had written typed out as sort of like a

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John Bryson: as a outline. Essentially, I literally

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John Bryson: wrote down 3 by 5 cards, memorized it word by word, and would use that

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John Bryson: because I didn't understand it.

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John Bryson: Terms of like the technology and how it worked everything else.

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John Bryson: and then the rest of it. I kind of filled in, as I as I learned more and was asking a ton of questions.

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John Bryson: They assigned someone to me to, so I could ask questions, and they were very good and patient.

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John Bryson: so that that helped as well. But I think those are that just getting started? It's so daunting.

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John Bryson: right? And then the pivot is like, that's also daunting trying these new industries without any experience at all.

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John Bryson: I think those are things that are.

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John Bryson: you know. Most people probably would look at and go no way.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So do you have advice for catalysts who are like oh, I mean, like, you know, functional switches or industry switches.

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John Bryson: It kind of comes down to that old adage that you, you know most people don't have enough confidence in themselves. You really do have to kind of go for it. And I I think I definitely didn't have enough cost a lot of confidence in myself.

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John Bryson: you know, at that time, and

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John Bryson: you know, having to figure it out. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot of tough.

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John Bryson: tough years, long, tough years.

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John Bryson: But it's possible if you, I think, having a reason.

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John Bryson: you know, the why was very strong.

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John Bryson: With with digital media. It was.

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John Bryson: I really wanted to understand where the Puck was going

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John Bryson: and and how real it was.

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John Bryson: because, like, you know, the the claims that a lot of these ad tech companies were making in terms of being able to deliver very specific types of content. Were were pretty bold.

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John Bryson: and I was like, well, how much of this is gray

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John Bryson: is what I wanted to understand. And so I I went into that as far as I I could go or wanted to go.

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John Bryson: and I think with with the move to banking.

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John Bryson: It's similar. It's like, you know, finance. It's funny to me. It's like this is how the world works at the end of the day. It's gas for the car.

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John Bryson: you know. The idea of money.

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John Bryson: It's it's it's not, you know, groceries and stuff. It's it's sort of like this is. This is literally fuel for the business.

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John Bryson: And it's a tool at the end of the day.

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John Bryson: and you have to be able to manage that tool properly.

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John Bryson: And so, like you know it. It's that to me is is interesting. And I wanted to understand that pipeline better.

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John Bryson: So that that keeps me kind of interested in in doing what I'm doing. Because, like, ultimately, like, we're here to help

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John Bryson: with growth and getting businesses from Point A to Point B.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. You connected it. You connected that the imposter syndrome to the hard work thing and the hypothesis piece right? Like your your. Why was I want to test this hypothesis like, what is this new digital tech stuff going to do? And how does that connect to some bigger whys. And also what I hear is like memorizing the card right? Like, when I switched from art history to becoming a network engineer, I worked like 80 HA week because I didn't know anything about network engineering. I was like, this is.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm going to grad school like, I have all these people who are gonna like help me learn that. And it's

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: it's the rabbit hole to go down. So we've got to hear a little bit about, you know in the seams about how you relate to the concept of being a catalyst, but I'd love to have you unpack that, and and tell us maybe a little bit about how being a catalyst has supported you. To get to this executive part of your life.

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John Bryson: I I mean, obviously it's not a a a direct

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John Bryson: line or connection from the things that I've done in the past to where I am now.

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John Bryson: I think, having that open mindedness has helped

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John Bryson: so much, and in a drive to to try to find some level of success, and to be great. I think those are all things that that drive me that are intangible.

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John Bryson: You can't teach ambition.

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John Bryson: you know, so that why? And finding the why, and using that as sort of like, the guiding light has sort of been

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John Bryson: a lot of what drives me.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, it's the fire in the belly of the catalyst. This like untapped energy that you know.

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John Bryson: Yeah, I could be doing, you know, could I go and do something else? Sure, like, you know, as long as it's not neurosurgery, I'd probably be okay with it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: so as a catalyst. And maybe we've talked about a couple of these things. But what can you share one or 2 of the biggest challenges you face as a catalyst executive specifically, and maybe what helped you most overcoming those challenges.

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John Bryson: Yeah, I I guess you know, I think for a while it was hearing the word. No.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hmm.

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John Bryson: And I, you know so many talks and so many podcasts.

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John Bryson: You hear people say how they flipped the script in terms of being motivated by the now.

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John Bryson: you know. So

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John Bryson: It's like, you know, it's like there was an agent that once told this story about

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John Bryson: how you know he was constantly getting no's.

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John Bryson: He's like I I changed my perception of what those no's were, because eventually I would sell something.

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John Bryson: and so that he would sell something, you know, for

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John Bryson: an ungodly number of amount of money, and then he said I would assign I would split that amongst all the no's, and saying like I would be being paid for. The no's.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hmm.

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John Bryson: Get me to the yes.

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John Bryson: And I think like that's a way to look at it.

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John Bryson: I think it. It's very easy to find yourself on an island which I think

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John Bryson: I can. Never I. You know I've never started my own company, but I think a lot of founders face this.

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John Bryson: you know you are.

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John Bryson: And wondering, is this really going to work? Am I doing the right thing.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hmm.

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John Bryson: You know I've got responsibilities.

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John Bryson: How do I continue? And you you know the conviction piece of it. I I guess.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So how do you overcome that part.

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John Bryson: Heads down, and I think the number one reason way that I've overcome it is by talking to other people and sharing ideas.

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John Bryson: I think you can give away a lot of idea. And you know, I think people, this is another problem. I think people hold on to their ideas thinking that they're proprietary.

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John Bryson: and it what's proprietary is the execution.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Ideas are are. I've learned that ideas are not.

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John Bryson: As valuable as as we like to think that they are. And I think when you share those ideas and you're able to bounce them off people, and you are looking at them in the eye. In person

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John Bryson: you can read, if it's a legit idea or not, at least I can. Maybe not everybody, maybe not. Everybody can do that. But for me this is what has worked is like, I can read someone's body language and how they respond to an idea.

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John Bryson: And then that helps. Tell me if I'm on the right track or not.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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John Bryson: And that's that's kind of how I get validation.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Nice. Yeah, the lonely. The loneliness piece is big, especially the more senior you get, I think, because if a lot of times, if you're successful. Other people and senior leaders in the organization

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: feel risk like you're gonna be cutting into their whatever and so you know, you and I met through the catalyst Leadership Trust. Which is why we created that. Because it's like it's super. It can be super lonely like. Where's the safe place where you can do that validation with people who think at your level, who think at your speed, and all of that. The what else did I want to say, Oh, yeah. The reframing, though, going back to the the note, the challenges, the reframing failure that you were talking about

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: is really powerful. And it's it's like, I wonder if you have advice, for, like maybe more junior catalysts who are listening about how to metabolize the nose, because, especially when you're early in career and you don't have enough wins like I remember, I did a door to door sales. Job was for a nonprofit getting memberships, but it's like the number of no's that you get like. It was such a great experience, because you have to learn to not take it personally, and then you get the joy from the win. But like, that's hard. Yeah.

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John Bryson: But you know what eventually, maybe you get to a yes.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And when you do get to that yes, that's that's the most important. Yes, ever, because then you can ask.

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John Bryson: Why did you say yes?

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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John Bryson: Then maybe you can reverse, engineer it and change your change your ways to get to another. Yes, or like you at the end of the day. What you end up learning is like, well, what is it that people want? Why am I trying to push string with an idea, or a concept or a product that

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John Bryson: you know doesn't seem to be working in market. Well, what would work in market. And so I think, no matter what it is that you're selling. You need to stop at some point and kind of ask that question with the people that you're trying to sell to.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Totally totally the strategic pause like, hold on a minute. Let's.

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John Bryson: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Select. Here, yeah.

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John Bryson: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: One of the things that you mentioned when we were talking before we hit record was the the place that you are are at now sounds like it's conducive to being a catalyst executive and showing up the way that you show up. And so I'm wondering if you want to share a little bit about how that's been supportive for you.

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John Bryson: Yeah,

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John Bryson: I think that that's also probably one of the biggest challenges for people that want to create change is being a part of an organization or something that is open to the idea.

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John Bryson: You know, William Morris was not that open to the idea? They had been running things for a hundred the same way, for as a for a hundred years.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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John Bryson: And you know, trying to convince them.

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John Bryson: Yeah,

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John Bryson: elder statesmen of the idea of change and especially change being in technology. It's an uphill battle.

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John Bryson: And so there's a great man. There was an artist.

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John Bryson: slash celebrity manager. His name was Bernie Brillstein, who came in and talked to the trainees. He's like, Look, guys, if it's not moving fast enough for you, get out!

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John Bryson: Don't stay married to this place. It's not going to do you any favors, and he was absolutely right.

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John Bryson: You know. I think when you're young, you you kind of like, lend yourself to giving all this loyalty to the organization that took a chance on hiring you. But

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John Bryson: you know quite frankly, if that organization I I don't know if if the newer generation has this idea, but, like.

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John Bryson: you know, that organization is now meeting.

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John Bryson: not doing it for you. Then, you know, there's plenty of other places to go.

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John Bryson: And I think that that was something that was a discovery that that helped me a lot.

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John Bryson: because it was very hard to let go of this place. William Morris, which was like the hub of Hollywood. It was, you know.

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John Bryson: It's not the same thing, but, like, you know, similar to like a Goldman Sachs in New York, William, one is to Los Angeles.

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John Bryson: It's the place, and so like to leave that and go anywhere else was seemed like a demotion. That's what my my brain at the time was thinking it was hard.

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John Bryson: but I also knew that in order to get ahead of the problem I had to leave

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John Bryson: an archaic system.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's so hard, and it's something. We talk with catalysts all the time, and it is an interesting question about the generational difference. But what I will say is my experience of catalysts, and just the way we show up is like

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I can change it. I can see the better way, so it'd be an interesting research, actually, with maybe Marty to look at different generations and their relationship catalyst non catalyst in their loyalty, because I think that we get to your point like we identified like I can fix it. I need to fix it as opposed to like. They don't want what I have like. I want to go to a place where they want what I have, and they'll support me.

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John Bryson: The mistake that I made was I didn't approach the the top guy early enough.

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John Bryson: and I the the other side. That was the top. Guy at the time was not approachable.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: No, that's a good point. Actually, totally.

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John Bryson: You know what I have now

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John Bryson: is. I have people at the very top who are completely approachable.

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John Bryson: When they say open door they absolutely mean it

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John Bryson: absolutely me, and that that is everything.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It is everything, and thank you for the grace that you just gave me, because, like, I have a motto about not about living life without regret, which is not possible to then regret the things that you did do versus the things you didn't do. But so one of my regrets was that in one of my roles it didn't go to the top like we had all of the success metrics like we had all the things, and I've held myself like, why didn't I just go in and say, Do you want me to? 10 X. This with this resource I could. But to your point. I love also the.

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John Bryson: Reflection of like it wasn't invited like there, it was clear that that wasn't necessarily going to be a safe, a safe place.

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John Bryson: Yeah.

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John Bryson: Oh, yeah, they weren't there

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John Bryson: so sorry. Sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. What was that last one?

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John Bryson: The the William Morris stuff like they weren't gonna listen to it at that time, you know. Now, maybe different. But like, when I was there.

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John Bryson: you know, sit down, shut up, do your work.

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John Bryson: That was kind of yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: All right as we wrap up. Who is your favorite, most inspirational catalyst? And why.

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John Bryson: You know I thought a lot about this. I am going to attribute it to a music artist.

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John Bryson: I'll call out Prince.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Nice.

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John Bryson: In terms of you. Look at what he did

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John Bryson: from the very beginning, in terms of how he thought of managing his own career, and he knew who he was and what he could do.

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John Bryson: and you know it was very much. Give me the ball and get out of my way.

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John Bryson: which I, you know, is was.

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John Bryson: I think I I certainly admire, and I think you know what where he took his music was in a in a direction that

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John Bryson: at the time was so just different. I mean, it was as if he was planted on Earth

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John Bryson: somewhere else. He wasn't born from Earth. He was somewhere in another planet.

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John Bryson: And like, I think, a lot, there's a lot of music artists that

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John Bryson: have that type of connectivity that you just you hear them. And you're like, how did they

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John Bryson: do that? Where did that

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John Bryson: come from it? These concepts, the ideas, the melodies, whatever it may be, the lyrics.

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John Bryson: You know these are very bold, bold

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John Bryson: things that they're putting forth in. You know, it's different than the business world, for sure.

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John Bryson: because you're you're talking about human emotion.

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John Bryson: But I look at music artists as probably being some of the bravest people, just because of what they're putting out there. It's very hard, you know. Can't imagine being chaperone in, you know Washington Square Park with just a keyboard, and, like, you know, people throwing wired up paper out, or whatever like yelling things, or, you know, eventually becoming something. That's it took her a while.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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John Bryson: You know that Lady Gaga same same type of thing, you know.

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John Bryson: I think she she didn't have it easy, but she had conviction. For sure she knew she knew what she wanted to do. And

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John Bryson: I think like that type of

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John Bryson: confidence, because, like, you know, these musicians like they're not doing it for like at that level you're not. You're not doing it for to you can barely get by.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Totally.

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John Bryson: All struggle, and they're struggling. Struggle. It's it's pure struggle. There's no Ipo.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That's right.

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John Bryson: They're just hoping to get to a place where you know they can make some sort of living and have health insurance. Right? So

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John Bryson: you know that that's a very different motivation than what we see today in most of the world. Everyone's going after these material things. I think

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John Bryson: you know, that's not really what they're going after.

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John Bryson: The. So anyway, I look at that world as being sort of like a you know

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John Bryson: the what some of the best catalysts.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I love it. I don't know if you've seen. There's a great documentary about the beastie boys.

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John Bryson: I haven't seen it yet. They're they're amazing. They're incredible.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: They talk about how, after the first, st like the 1st album, I think it was just the 1st album. And they basically had used up all their money, and they tried like that. You know. Their promoter had an agent had tried to make them into something that they weren't, and when they got when they really hit it big

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: was when they were like, fuck it. We're going to make the music that we want to make, that we enjoy that serves who we are as people. So just pulling that thread like the more you can tap into like you know who you are. You said about Prince like he knew who he was.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: and he stayed true to that. And I think for catalyst. That's such a great message, because we often try and contort ourselves into fitting into systems where we just don't fit into. So thank you.

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John Bryson: Yeah, that's I would say that that's 1 of my strengths and weaknesses. Right is being able to adapt

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John Bryson: in the chameleon like type of personality that can mold into these different things. The problem with that is like

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John Bryson: you can. You can trick yourself into doing things that maybe you don't shouldn't be doing back in my career, and I probably spent more time than I should have in the ad tech space doing what I was doing, but definitely did. They were not easy years, and it was not fun at certain point. It just was not really wasn't fun. I should have moved on earlier. So it's it's you have to know know where your light is, and then

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John Bryson: stay on on track with that.

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John Bryson: and not deviate because of like what your concerns of like what other people are thinking about.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That's an amazing place to end. Thank you so much.

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John Bryson: Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Shannon.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's always a good conversation. And to our listening audience, thank you so much for joining us. If you'd like to learn more about how to create bold, powerful change in the world, make sure to check out our book, move fast, break, shit, burnout, or go to our website at catalystconstellations.com. And if you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, please take 10 seconds to rate it on itunes, spotify stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts of course. If you have other catalysts in your life, hit the share button and send a link their way thanks again.