Franck Cormier, Lead Partner and President of Smarttasking Inc - Transformative Strategies for Organizational Success

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hi! I'm Shannon, Lucas.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): And I'm Tracy Lovejoy. We're the co-ceos of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalysts to create bold, powerful change in the world.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And this is our podcast move, fast, break, burnout, where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully lead transformation in large organizations. And I am thrilled today to have as a guest a good friend of mine, Frank Cormier. Welcome, Frank.

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Franck Cormier: Thank you very much. Good morning to you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Frank is the lead partner and president of smart tasking, a consulting professional services org whose mission is to empower businesses, to work smarter, faster and better. He's performed crazy roles all over the world as executives at at, and T. Equam BT and Vodafone, where I had the great pleasure of working with him, driving innovation and transformation in Vodafone. He is truly a global citizen, having lived in France, the UK

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Uae. And again, happily for me, just down the road in Boulder, Colorado, and I loved this in your bio. Frank operates at his best when the cards are being redistributed. When the context appeals for reinvention when bringing the team together matters most. I just love how you said that.

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Franck Cormier: Thank you. Thank you very much.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Okay. So that was the high level. But we'd love to hear about your journey. Tell me a little bit about your catalytic journey, maybe sharing a few career highlights that you're proud of to see. Sort of the catalytic thread throughout.

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Franck Cormier: Yes, definitely. I mean, I will illustrate, you know, probably using what we do for customers, you know, in in smart tasking, one of one of the recent example of, you know.

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Franck Cormier: was in, you know, for a services organization who was actually confronted to, you know, margin erosion problems. And we did you know

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Franck Cormier: we did? A pricing review. We studied a little bit the pricing, you know, on the competition, on the competitive landscape, and we reviewed this. You know the different, you know, wall points, and it became apparent, you know very quickly that actually they were under pricing those services. And you, you know there were some resistance, you know, internally to

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Franck Cormier: do. You know, an increase of the price, and we try to obviously characterize and factualize. You know what we what we meant in this respect. And and at the end, you know, the leadership team, you know, trusted us, and we started to increase gradually, and if the price point where, for example, at 100

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Franck Cormier: right, we we gradually increase, you know, slowly the prices. And we noticed that at 117. Actually, this was the inflection points, for you know, for for the price. And they started to reduce, you know, it started to affect, you know, the volumes of the services that they were selling, but they had 17 up to 17 s. It didn't have any effect.

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Franck Cormier: So bringing, you know, bringing the leadership together, you know. Make them think a little bit, you know, differently trying to highlight. You know the the you know, the differentiators, and the value that we are provided was an element. And so we had them, you know, and it it was quite, you know, an an exercise to convince. You know, the particularly the sales organization, as you can imagine, that they needed to increase our price readily. But that was an example of

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Franck Cormier: of the of the things that we

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Franck Cormier: what we what we do or you know, for for customers. Another example was a very large organization which had been fast growing in Europe. I was still in Europe at that time, and they were very, very fast growing, and in order to be, you know, scaling their services, organization, organization, they needed to reorganize, and whereas in the past each of the different country leaders, you know, they had

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Franck Cormier: a service person, and he or she was responsible from pre-sales, you know to operations. The group had decided that they would implement a different model, and they actually verticalize and specialize all the different functions you know, forming part of the

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Franck Cormier: of the services organization. So you had pre-sales. You know, technical. You had, you know, project and program management. You had, you know, architects, you know, for the implementation, and of course you know the different layers of of support, and that created a level of

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Franck Cormier: of tension, you know, for for the customers, you know, the the people who were, you know, historically managing a large batch with, you know, a fair amount of the, you know, complexity all of a sudden. You know, they were responsible for delivery as an example, you know, in this, in this particular country. So we were selected. I was the lead partner at the time on this project to try to make the work, to make the team, you know. Collaborate.

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Franck Cormier: you know, to, you know, to resolve. So creating wisdom.

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Franck Cormier: you know. 1st of all, it started with understanding in the New World. You know what their respective, you know accountabilities, and you know, and what success meant for each of them.

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Franck Cormier: And I'm having

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Franck Cormier: having done that, we started to create a common agenda and try to bring them on a path where the collaboration, you know, would be actually creating more value for each of them rather than you know what they would be able to perform. You know, individually. So it was not the technical, you know. But it was really, you know, listening to the resistance point, bringing a bit of emotional intelligence in the world of engineering.

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Franck Cormier: A A and trying to figure out, you know how they could basically, you know, disrupt the market together by, you know by by better, you know. Collaborating.

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Franck Cormier: Another example. That comes to mind is one of our, you know, one of our client. Actually, they they had built it was a software organization. It is a software organization, and they had be, you know, build originally solutions. And the problem with solutions is that you can have as many as solutions that you have customers. And and

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Franck Cormier: and it reached a point where you need to rationalize a little bit your product.

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Franck Cormier: Otherwise, you know it's not scalable. And and what happens when you produce a new release, and you have to upgrade with all the custom development which has been made for each of the different clients.

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Franck Cormier: So they had made the decision that they wanted to move towards becoming the product house. But what happens for key customers in that case was.

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Franck Cormier: you know, you all of a sudden stop, stop any further customization of what is provided, you know, to the customer. So they have to hold. So you are holding their business

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Franck Cormier: right at at some time, at some point until such time that you

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Franck Cormier: so they had. They had a threat, you know, from one of their major clients, who did not subscribe, you know, originally to the approach, and and this customer was more than a 3rd of the annual revenue of the.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: No.

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Franck Cormier: That was quite significant for all of them of them. So they called on us, and they asked us, You know, what would you do? How would you approach that? You know you have to reconcile the 2 imperative, which is, you know, you cannot be anything to anyone, and in the same time, you know, you have to find a way to sustain your business with the key clients

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Franck Cormier: and so it became apparent after, you know, you know, doing some discovery. And you know, speaking to the ex engaging with the client, you know, 1st of all, that 1st of all, you know, they didn't need all the features that they asked for I mean somewhere, obviously imperative somewhere more nice to have. So we had, you know, to reprioritize a little bit the roadmap and to agree basically with the leadership team of this client, a roadmap where we would. You know, we will have a common core.

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Franck Cormier: and we will differentiate, you know, based on the customers. You know what you know, based on the criticality of each of these customers, what they would do or what they wouldn't do. And and more interesting is that actually, the features that we agreed to develop on top of the core product

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Franck Cormier: were also used by some other clients. So it became part, you know, for most it became part of the core product. So then they could scale. They could build a you know, a support organization, you know, that would be trying to support these different additional features.

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Franck Cormier: and we managed to get, you know, the this particular client on board. I mean, the contract was, you know, was renewed, and it was actually expanded to Asia, which wasn't, you know, a great success for this for this organization.

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Franck Cormier: And we did that, you know, with

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Franck Cormier: you know, in the space of 6 months it took a little bit of time, as you can imagine. To

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Franck Cormier: I you know I sat on the R&D center at the time, you know, for with the client and and and you know we take a pride of what we've been able to, you know. Help, you know, as a customer.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: 6 months doesn't seem that long. 1st of all, especially for the level of change. What's fascinating to me is the examples that you just gave are things when you're talking about change or disruption in these core areas, which is like revenue, the salespeople you're like, I'm going to play with that right

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: culture. I'm gonna you guys have been working this whole way. It's like the deep, the deep bowels of the organizational structure. And the last one is like potentially disrupting your largest customer. How did your sort of catalytic, like the those are some of the places you're gonna get the absolute biggest resistance. How did your catalytic nature help you overcome those things?

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Franck Cormier: W. When when when we start you know as an organization and when me, you know when it's part of our the way that I work. You know, when when we engage generally, it's in the context of, you know, change programs or transformation that the customers are doing.

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Franck Cormier: whether they're in the tech sector. We are management consultant, and we come primarily from the technology sectors. We can act in different capacity, you know, from product development to sales to pricing to support and operations. Or sometimes we work for C-i-o's and C-t-o's of other organizations, and we are not. In that case, you know, management consultant because we don't know banking. We don't know insurance enough example, right?

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Franck Cormier: But there are 3 things that are super important to us, and and and and that help us, you know, being the catalyst, you know, inside the customer organization.

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Franck Cormier: And these 3 things are something things and lesson learned that we have.

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Franck Cormier: you know, taken over the years, I mean, the 1st one is to think the future from the future.

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Franck Cormier: and and what it means is that when you're undertaking

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Franck Cormier: for example, I give you a practical example. One of our clients, you know.

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Franck Cormier: was helping or providing a solution to migrate.

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Franck Cormier: you know, legacy on-prem applications to the cloud.

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Franck Cormier: And we. We had been helping him helping this customer

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Franck Cormier: in the context of a ministry in Europe.

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Franck Cormier: and you had legacy systems. You know, you had Job. You know, description and job. You know, people who are performing you at system analyst.

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Franck Cormier: You had job schedulers. I mean that these are jobs that existed when I started to work in the nineties at, you know, at at that time. But nowadays, when you're

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Franck Cormier: when you are, you know, using, you know, public cloud or private cloud. In their case.

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Franck Cormier: I mean, these jobs are actually outsource to, you know the Cloud Provider.

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Franck Cormier: and and what became apparent is they didn't think the future from the future, from the perspective of helping the customer. Design is new organization. They were obviously a software engineering company

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Franck Cormier: extremely knowledgeable, and they have very, you know, fascinating product, you know, to help, you know, the transition of applications to the cloud. But nonetheless.

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Franck Cormier: you know the people side of things. We are not, you know, we are not considered, and that was the resistance factor. Right? And what's going to happen with me, you know, when this you know, you know, this change, you know, is executed. So we we help, you know, our client, but also our client client

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Franck Cormier: design a people program whereby, you know, there will be new jobs, and they will have probably to go to the market to find the adequate profile. But there was also an opportunity to bring the team together. You know, to, you know, buy by by a a reskinning program. So, thinking the future from the future. I think it's something which is important. The second one is I mentioned it already. I mean, it's bring the team together on an agenda.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Room.

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Franck Cormier: And and super important, you know, and as a catalyst.

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Franck Cormier: you know, we as catalyst, you know, for for for our customers.

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Franck Cormier: I think it's important to identify. You know, these people

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Franck Cormier: that can play an active role inside the organization make sure that they are supported to make sure that their visions.

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Franck Cormier: and make sure that the visions is understood, as well, you know, by by the leadership and creating a common agenda. That's something we've learned.

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Franck Cormier: And the 3rd thing is impact from the start.

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Franck Cormier: I mean the the Tina effect. I mean, you need to create value, you know, early in the transformation.

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Franck Cormier: I mean the tuner effect where you know in the old days you locked, you know, 20 people in the room, you know, to develop something, and then it was supposedly coming a year after these days along.

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Franck Cormier: Right? There's a long gone. So you need to prioritize what you will impact obviously, positively, in the people. Life in the end, in the company. Life in the company way of working, you know rapidly. All cannot be achieved, you know, overnight, but you need to have a stepped approach to produce the value.

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Franck Cormier: And so we apply, you know this this 3 principle, yeah, and thinking the future from the future impact from the start. And and most importantly, you know, bringing the team together.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): i i i love it. It's like amazing wisdom for all of us to to action on right away. We're already talking about this term catalyst. And so I'd love to ask you, Frank, in your own words. How do you relate to the concept of catalyst.

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Franck Cormier: Catalyst you know many, many cat characteristic. In my, in my opinion, I've been 1st and foremost, they are part of the 10% to do 80% of the transformation in any organization.

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Franck Cormier: And there are trouble makers. There are people who can

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Franck Cormier: process a lot of information.

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Franck Cormier: you know in their own mind they can.

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Franck Cormier: They can look at the possibilities and what what's possible to achieve. You know, how can we do better, faster, cheaper.

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Franck Cormier: Right and and and soon they have an idea. I mean, before they formulate their ideas. Generally they are processing the ideas they are trying to imagine the you know the change, and and and when they found the solution.

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Franck Cormier: then, you know, they are quite impatient.

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Franck Cormier: Because they are, you know, action driven

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Franck Cormier: and they are action driven.

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Franck Cormier: And I think that's

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Franck Cormier: probably I mean, they have a video. As I said. You know they have a vision. They see the possibilities of doing things, you know, improving and and they are quite. You know

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Franck Cormier: that. I mean, it's there are hard people you know, to manage. Also, I mean, you have to.

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Franck Cormier: You know you have to feed them. You have to leave them, you know a space so that they can express their creativity. And and yeah.

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Franck Cormier: and sometime it works, as we as we know sometime, sometime it works sometime. It doesn't work. But you know, in the world where there is a lot of volatility there is a lot of obviously uncertainty

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Franck Cormier: you know, and you know, and the pace of changes is still continuing to accelerate.

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Franck Cormier: I think these people are, you know, essential.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): You mentioned in your 3 principles, bringing the team together and identifying who can play an active role. I was curious, and you know to your point that you were just saying, there it is that often your catalyst, or or tell me what you were referring to there

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): in who can play an active role. If you know, these are the 10 that are doing 80% of the transformation.

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Franck Cormier: But it varies from my experience, you know from.

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Franck Cormier: you know, the most important thing, I think, is the company culture.

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Franck Cormier: and you have to accept failure.

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Franck Cormier: And and when you're, you know, when catalyst evolve in a world which is, you know, fast changing, I mean generally the you know the company has already, somehow, you know.

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Franck Cormier: for for some parts, you know, adapted to the New World, and they understand the requirement and and the imperative to slightly change the game or to reinvent themselves.

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Franck Cormier: But but sometimes, you know, you leave an organization who.

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Franck Cormier: you know, when I started to work in telecoms it was not unusual to sign 10 years deal.

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Franck Cormier: I mean, it was not the norm, you know. I would say 5 to 7 years was the norm.

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Franck Cormier: you know, especially for complex global outsourcing transactions. These days are gone.

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Franck Cormier: but when you sign 10 years you have visibility, I mean, unless you do some, you know you, you, you fail on the quality of service, or something which is independent to the contract. Execution happens on the customer side generally. You have predictability of your revenue stream for for about 2 years. 10 years these days are gone.

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Franck Cormier: for most they are gone.

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Franck Cormier: and and this is where the company culture is important, and and particularly at the leadership level, where you need to accept that some of the initiatives and ideas which will be incubated, tested. You know some of them will not scale. You have to accept that. You have to accept it. Of course you know you.

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Franck Cormier: You will not write the blank check as an executive, you know, to your engineering or your innovation lead. You'll have, you know, some control point, but you have to accept, you know, failure as a

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Franck Cormier: you know. And and I see a lot of resistance today.

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Franck Cormier: I see a fair amount of resistance.

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Franck Cormier: You know, from Ctos and Cios. And and

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Franck Cormier: you know, in the space of AI,

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Franck Cormier: because the expectation from the leadership team is.

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Franck Cormier: you know, we're gonna give you X 1 million dollars, you know, to provide, you know, to create, you know the let's say an automation.

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Franck Cormier: whatever it is.

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Franck Cormier: whatever it is, and and and some not all, you know, of course, but some of the executive team would have the expectation that by introducing AI this will have an immediate improvement on the bottom line, whether and and that's you know that's also an element of culture.

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Franck Cormier: Not sure if I'm answering, you know, right to your question here.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Absolutely Shannon. Please.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): To get.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yes, totally. And because you know what you just articulated is.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: you make the case. You need catalysts now more than you did 20 years ago, because the pace of business has changed the level of uncertainty, the speed, all of that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And I want to go back to something that you said earlier, because it's like you, you shared all of the amazing attributes that catalyst can bring. But

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: organizations will often focus on the thing that you said, which is, it can be difficult to manage them.

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Franck Cormier: Yes.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And so I'm wondering how you would communicate to to, you know, executives and organizations.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: why they need the catalyst and what they should do about it to, you know, to overcome that potential resistance of Oh, you want me to figure out, find all my troublemakers, and do what.

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Franck Cormier: 5 nights phone. I think. I think it's a good, you know. It's a it's a good question here, and

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Franck Cormier: I think they, you know, if

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Franck Cormier: if they accept, you know that the world is fast evolving.

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Franck Cormier: Do you know, 1st of all.

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Franck Cormier: and if they are being impacted and the cards are being redistributed.

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Franck Cormier: you know. You know, on the marketplace.

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Franck Cormier: Then they need they need to react. And how do they react? You know they will do more of the same. They probably get the same results.

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Franck Cormier: And so they have to, you know.

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Franck Cormier: Think a little bit, you know, as we commonly say, you know, think a little bit outside the box, and create a community of people who have

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Franck Cormier: experience in what they do, but also are, you know, willing to share ideas and to

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Franck Cormier: discuss. You know this. What? What can be done, you know, to

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Franck Cormier: to, you know in the context whether it's, you know, more competition. Whether the program you know the program or the product so is a is a bit dated, you know. What do they need to do in order to to, you know, to react. And they have to understand that.

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Franck Cormier: I mean. And this, you know, catalyst also needs to be provided you know they need to provide it with some.

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Franck Cormier: Your stewardship in terms of.

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Franck Cormier: you know, evaluating their ideas, prioritizing their ideas, and also

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Franck Cormier: accepting that it's going to be a journey

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Franck Cormier: that it's have to be on journey, and some of the catalyst they have to reconcile, you know, short term imperative with long term vision. And I think that's something which is important, because, for the reason that mentioned earlier, you have to impact from the start.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Quick wins to get the credibility a hundred percent totally. And I think it's interesting, like, when you, you know, when when we were working together at Vodafone, you started off with your answer of well, if they accept that the pace of change has accelerated in our innovation workshops, we used to have to make that case. But I think that now like this, that's 1. Maybe silver lining of the pandemic is like you almost don't have to have that part of the conversation anymore. But

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: thank you for that thoughtful answer. And so, I guess, like pivoting off of that. Then, as a catalyst executive because you've had some crazy roles you were telling us like when you were CEO! You had 3 acquisitions in in a quarter so like as a catalyst exec what have been? What are 2 of your biggest challenges? And what's helped you most in overcoming those challenges.

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Franck Cormier: You know, some of the challenge I faced in my corporate career was to make a product organization coexist with the services organization

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Franck Cormier: and the I mean the business model are not the same. The equity, I mean one is a Capex business. You invest a lot, and then you do 80% avida or 70% Abda

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Franck Cormier: as a return. And the other one is, you have minimum, you know, investment to start. And you do when you do 30% on the large scale services organization, you know, that does, you know, support. But also, you know, you know, implementation.

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Franck Cormier: You're doing well and

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Franck Cormier: And so one of the challenge I faced in my corporate world. And and that applies, you know, to to many. You know, telecommunication companies that I work for is, why would the executive, you know, the the executive or the boardroom accept, you know, to be diluting

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Franck Cormier: the profitability, and they are measured, you know, by the analyst.

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Franck Cormier: on the basis of the number of people, the Abda and the Capex, that they consume, and and the volatility of the whole market. So I think you know, bringing bringing you know, services into a product. You know, business is difficult generally.

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Franck Cormier: And because it's you know, it's the the economic model is very, very different, you know. Why would we enter into also this complexity, having to tailor potentially our service offerings to accommodate. You know, certain clients, I mean, and I understand that. You know I've been on 2 sides, you know. You know, you know, defense, you know, driving services organization, but also a heavily productized, you know, delivery operations. So I understand the the context. So that's

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Franck Cormier: what 1 1 of the of the challenge. That, you know I I fails. The second one is I, as I mentioned, I think is is around, you know, accepting the figure on innovation and and and that's

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Franck Cormier: now a number of cases where you invest, you try to, you know, to build something which is different, you know. I mean

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Franck Cormier: in these days, I mean, the Internet, you know, was becoming a reality. So we were, you know, building, you know what? Actually on the PIN today, you know the global economy?

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Franck Cormier: Oh, and

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Franck Cormier: and and when and this came with a you know a number of you know, innovation product, I mean, you know, nobody talked about really, I mean cyber security to the same extent that we are obviously now very dependent on cyber security for private personal data, but also enterprise data. So we had to, you know, incubate and to.

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Franck Cormier: But you had to, you know, sometime it worked sometime. It, you know, it didn't work. And

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Franck Cormier: that's 2 of the you know 2 of the challenge that I I faced around, you know, making you know these 2 business model and these 2 power client, you know, you know, coexist in the world, and there are very few organization. If you look retrospectively, or

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Franck Cormier: you know all of the. There are very few organizations who try who manage to, you know, to do that.

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Franck Cormier: and then.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I totally. I love where you landed with those 2, because they are like so core to catalyst executive challenges, cause we're often brought in actually to disrupt the business model. And you know, whichever direction it is, you know, there's always the swing back and forth from, you know, product to services or decentralized to centralize. And like, there's all of these things. And there's always these key stakeholders.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And it's a problem really, with global economy. In my opinion, which is also just like the quarterly earnings report, because that drives down so much of the resistance to any possible risk

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: in the business model that you're doing so. I wanna hear how you overcame that one, but also the exception of failure like, especially if you're the one that's been again brought in to drive it. How do you convince people to try it? But also tell them hopefully, set the expectation ahead of time like we have to try this. There's no other option. But I can't give you a guarantee that it's exactly gonna work out the way that you hope it's gonna work out. So how did you overcome those 2 challenges?

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Franck Cormier: On the 1st one was we established the proof point, and we, you know, we started with a limited number of customers.

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Franck Cormier: you know. And again, you know you, I mean, when you're doing 1 million, I mean, you know, per year of revenue. And you're when you're doing a 50 million. It's a you know, it's a different.

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Franck Cormier: obviously consideration. So we started with those clients who first, st you know, wanted to have.

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Franck Cormier: you know, a a special service, you know, in absence of a you know, of a of a better world. And we started with that and and we started to, you know, scale the services layer, and it became very apparent, you know, very quickly, actually about, you know, a year after that, 1st of all.

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Franck Cormier: you know the the duration of the contract that we were able to secure with this client was

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Franck Cormier: much longer.

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Franck Cormier: much more.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Nice.

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Franck Cormier: Yeah. So instead of

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Franck Cormier: having to renegotiate the price every 18 months, each of their negotiation translating into 20% cost reduction.

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Franck Cormier: we were, I mean renegotiating the services renegotiating every 3 years.

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Franck Cormier: and and the value, you know, for a heavily what was at that time a heavily commoditized, you know, telecom product

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Franck Cormier: with the value and the assessment of the performance was no longer based on connectivity, only it was based on the services that we were providing, you know, through this customized service offer. So we could.

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Franck Cormier: you know, 1st of all, extend, you know, the duration of the contract, and also expand more

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Franck Cormier: more within the customer organization. It's not uncommon that especially, you know, large multinationals, you know, they subscribe to the services for a division or for a group, or for a region, and then we were able to demonstrate that on the basis of 2 or 3.

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Franck Cormier: You know, example you know that real life example

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Franck Cormier: and and then it became the norm. And you know I wouldn't probably name the organization that this, you know, I was raised at that time, but when I met, you know quite recently to some of the executive here in New York. You know, they told us that actually this service offering was the majority of what we're they were selling today.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing.

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Franck Cormier: That's not me. Only I mean clearly not. But it was the team effort to say, we're gonna have this specific service. Yes, it's gonna come with a 30%, you know, gross margin as opposed to 80%, which was the core business. But if you combine the effect.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That's right. And so what I hear in that was that you knew what the board and the street and everything like you knew how to frame with data points to overcome the resistance. So that's really beautiful. And then how do you overcome or navigate that like, hey, we're going to innovate, and we're likely going to fail once or twice.

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Franck Cormier: Yup.

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Franck Cormier: wow! I mean, it's we didn't have any magic wand, does it? You know we we do try to.

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Franck Cormier: We had, you know

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Franck Cormier: the resistance we, you know we had at that time. We tried to overcome it on starting with, you know, small steps

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Franck Cormier: that were, you know, the less.

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Franck Cormier: You know a controversial.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Franck Cormier: So we tried to contain the creativity of our catalyst to say, Let's make some steps, and everybody was more or less on board that it needed to be done. But the way we did it was remarkable. As the team, you know, we had speed. We had impact to the customer. So we started to build the confidence that

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Franck Cormier: it was not

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Franck Cormier: the temple of pure thoughts. If you translate

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Franck Cormier: right, it was practical.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yes.

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Franck Cormier: It was practical, adding value from the start, and also.

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Franck Cormier: and then we took them on the journey, where we gradually moved the cursor to things which were more innovative. We obviously agreed, you know, to contain the investment right to test the market, to establish the proof point, also to productize. You know, that's also important. Even the services layered, you know, can be.

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Franck Cormier: you know, a productize. I mean the way of working the methodologies, the processes so that you can scale the business. And yeah, and we, I mean, maybe I should have started with that. We, you know, we we also focus the inner. You know the innovation effort and the resistance to, you know, to innovation, to accept. You know the failure that could sometime result

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Franck Cormier: on those opportunities who had potential to scale.

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Franck Cormier: We don't.

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Franck Cormier: Not not not so customize, you know, so specific to accommodate the customer needs that they have no

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Franck Cormier: opportunity, or there is no opportunity to generalize and to make it, you know, scale

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Franck Cormier: in the

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Franck Cormier: but that's

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Franck Cormier: probably you know the way we approach that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It's brilliant before I hand it, or I just want to synopsize. I love your intersection of like the hard hitting business focus

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: with the like catalyst experience behind it. So thank you. That was amazing. All right, Tracy, over to you.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah, similar to Shan. I I am so struck with the very tactical nature of what you're sharing with us that, I think, is such a gift

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): to us. And the listening audience of like, you know, like, think about it. It's it's very strategic.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): and it's very straightforward in making sure that you're thinking from a bottom line. You know. How are we going to drive this and the culture? Right? You're not forgetting that. So thank you. Thank you for helping breaking it down to break it down for us.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Thank you all right, as we wrap up, Frank. I'm so curious.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Who are, or is your favorite famous catalyst that is alive or dead, past, present. Someone who has inspired you.

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Franck Cormier: I think I'll probably have 2. I mean one was my personal mentor

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Franck Cormier: and you know. He passed away, so I will not tell his name. His 1st name was Lauren.

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Franck Cormier: I was fortunate to work with him for about 10 years in different capacity and running. My.

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Franck Cormier: you know my business finance group and M. And A. At that time. But he

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Franck Cormier: he put me on a sort of you know, leadership development program with rotation. I worked for him as his Ea. One of his Ea. He was an officer in a large organization for 10 years, and it was about, you know, leave my life.

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Franck Cormier: So you, when you are Nea, you know, you start probably 2 or 2 h, you know, earlier than the executive, and you probably finish minimum 2 h after him, and you make sure that

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Franck Cormier: you understand that you know all the different meetings and decision points are fully prepared so that they can, you know, perform.

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Franck Cormier: And he saw he was a you know. This person, you know, came was first, st you know. He was very, very rational, I mean? He had very, very strong and engineering background, but he had an even more, you know, talent, you know, to bring the team together and showing, and you know, you know, emotional intelligence, you know, to the people. You had been

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Franck Cormier: very, very successful in his career prior to him, and I work together. He was part of IBM in these days, and you know, and there was a book, you know, you probably remember. Start to be a little bit dated now

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Franck Cormier: wrote, you know, that was written by Lucasna, who said, You know I'm I made an elephant dance, and this was part of this leadership team, who in these days, you know, transformed Ibm.

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Franck Cormier: you know, and made them, you know, a success success. So it was really a mentor for me, because, 1st of all, you know, gave me the opportunity to develop. I learned so much about. You know the people side of things. The organization development. You know. And yeah.

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Franck Cormier: so that's you know, somebody that you know. You know, really inspired me. And it's also worth saying. You know, it's the initial form meeting. I was 48, and it was by, you know, by really random

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Franck Cormier: to very, very fortunate to be

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Franck Cormier: formatted by somebody like him, you know, in my early days, and and it's when I look retrospectively. You know the the people who were probably, you know, more.

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Franck Cormier: you know, more quality, but didn't have the opportunity to work for somebody like this, you know, early in their career. I think it. You know, it's impacting the rest of your career. It doesn't mean that it's insurmountable, of course, when you have a bad start, but it's better to have a good start with somebody who is a, you know, inspiring and leading, and bring the team together. And yeah, and have a vision as well. Has a vision.

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Franck Cormier: So that's somebody. Somebody who really, you know, inspired me. But he's not, you know. He's not.

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Franck Cormier: you know. I mean he was in the industry, a public figure, but you know he's not the second person that

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Franck Cormier: I didn't know personally, but I work for the ease organization, and he

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Franck Cormier: and he really inspired me.

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Franck Cormier: You know I in the industry, you know, this person had also interest and business, and I'm not commenting on the other interest. That's not belonging to me, you know, as a business guy but this person was Ross Peron and he built Eds in 1962. He was employed at Ibm after the

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Franck Cormier: you know, when he left, you know the the army, and he had a vision.

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Franck Cormier: And this vision, if I sum it up? Is it created the cloud before time

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Franck Cormier: and try to convince at that time is leadership that some of the customers didn't have the financial

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Franck Cormier: surface. If you translate

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Franck Cormier: right to necessarily involve invest into proprietary systems.

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Franck Cormier: and he say, Why don't we share, you know, the the processing and the storage of this CPU to other customers will be will put a dial up line, and they can, you know, use our mainframe systems

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Franck Cormier: right and and they would get a fraction of the cost

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Franck Cormier: I did not resonate in that time.

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Franck Cormier: he went on. His own. He created Eds. He actually

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Franck Cormier: invested, you know, to help, you know as Steve Steve Jobs right when when he left Apple before coming back and created next.

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Franck Cormier: And he had built basically.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Ross Perot invested in next.

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Franck Cormier: Yes.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Didn't know this. I didn't know any of this about him. This is crazy.

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Franck Cormier: Yeah, yeah, he invested in next. And to my knowledge, he he did that. And he created what I

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Franck Cormier: what I witnessed, you know, even today was the best

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Franck Cormier: school for

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Franck Cormier: business management, I mean, from a from a process perspective, from assistance perspective. You imagine. At that time, you know I was a junior guy, I mean working in Eds, right as a financial analyst to start. And then, you know, and and and then as as a manager.

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Franck Cormier: And we had an online real-time information systems.

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Franck Cormier: you know, for each of the projects and the people who were forecasting the

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Franck Cormier: you know, the the the development of the business with each of the end user accounts where the account manager they accessed online these systems. Then they, I mean, it was absolutely phenomenal and in terms of

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Franck Cormier: also

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Franck Cormier: financial evaluation. I mean, they were engaged in, you know, large outsourcing transactions at that time.

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Franck Cormier: The the the financial system that they had been, they had at least a decade. They were a decade ahead of time, and the competitors, you know. I was in Europe at that time.

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Franck Cormier: But all you know, even the large scale, you know, companies, and I mean in Europe, I mean they were. They didn't have a clue, and I think I I found you know this company also, you know, very, very inspiring. Thanks to its leadership. He had, you know, as I said, I didn't work with him because he had already sold Eds at the time to a general matter models, and it was a subsidiary of GM. In these days.

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Franck Cormier: and what I found also amazing is, when I started to work. There was a guy

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Franck Cormier: at the end of the corridor. He was the Svp. For sales in Europe.

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Franck Cormier: and the and his name was Bill

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Franck Cormier: and Beam had been arrested when he was running Iran, together with one of his colleagues.

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Franck Cormier: by the during the Revolution in Iran in 79,

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Franck Cormier: and Peru try to get ease. People.

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Franck Cormier: you know, released, you know, using the American diplomacy at that time did not succeed, and he didn't give up

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Franck Cormier: in mandated.

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Franck Cormier: you know, and inundated. You know, he hired basically a next colonel of the special forces in the Us. They created a commando.

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Franck Cormier: They penetrated Iran through Turkey, and they took them out.

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Franck Cormier: and that's called commitment.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): This is the best history lesson ever, Frank. Thank you. Oh, my gosh!

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Franck Cormier: We could talk.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): For hours.

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Franck Cormier: And there is a book called On the Wings of an Eagle.

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Franck Cormier: that summarize this story.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Right. We'll put it in the show notes.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah.

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Franck Cormier: And the the person at the end is still alive. I exchanged with him about, you know, a year and a bit ago he lives in Texas Bill.

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Franck Cormier: and he was at the end of the, you know idea as the end at the corridor, and me as a junior guy was coming with us and telling us you know his stories, and I've got a book obviously signed by him.

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Franck Cormier: And I found this leader. You know, Ross Perot, you know. As I said, I'm talking business. I'm not talking anything else.

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Franck Cormier: But from a business perspective. He had the vision.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Amazing.

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Franck Cormier: It made the organization succeed incredible and distinctive, you know, products and services.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah.

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Franck Cormier: There. He had such an in parallel.

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Franck Cormier: you know, a commitment to his employee that for me false respect.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I always love it when we learn about someone through fresh eyes. So thank you. This is giving us some summer reading. So thank you for that, and thank you for all of the gifts that you've shared today, Frank, it has been a pleasure to spend time with you.

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Franck Cormier: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity, and very pleased to, you know, connect with you. Thank you.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Appreciate it, and thank you so much to our listening audience. If you'd like to learn about how to create bold, powerful change in the world. Be sure to check out our book, move fast, break, burnout, or go to our website at catalystconstallations.com dot.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And if you enjoyed this episode as much as we did, thanks, Frank, please take 10 seconds to rate it on itunes, spotify stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you have a catalyst in your life, hit the share button and send a link their way.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thank you.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Again.