David O’Malley, former SVP of Product Strategy & Innovation at VNS Health: Newton’s Law of Motion Meets Organizational Change

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.210 --> 00:00:09.659
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hi, I'm Shannon, Lucas. I'm a co-CEO at catalyst constellations, which is dedicated to creating bold, powerful change in the world.

2
00:00:09.770 --> 00:00:31.969
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: This is our podcast move, fast, break, ship, burnout, where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully lead transformation in large organizations. Today, I'm thrilled to have David O'malley. He's the Svp of product and strategy and innovation at Vns health, where he spearheads initiatives that transform healthcare through digital agile and innovative product strategies

3
00:00:31.970 --> 00:00:48.889
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: as head of strategy. His team covers diverse functions, beginning with the creation of a sustainable corporate strategy which I love linked to the key line of business and operational metrics. His responsibilities also include leading strategic policy and new ventures and investment groups.

4
00:00:49.030 --> 00:00:56.929
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: He is responsible for the creation launch and commercialization of products in the areas of Behavioral Health Hospice, AI and Analytics.

5
00:00:57.170 --> 00:01:11.789
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: As a member of the senior leadership team he's responsible for embracing and advancing a growth culture ownership and empathy. He seeks out and empowers diverse voices to tell their stories at leadership forums and coaching the next generation of healthcare leaders. Welcome, David.

6
00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:13.790
david omalley: Very much great to be here.

7
00:01:14.350 --> 00:01:26.630
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: All right. So I did a very small snippet of a very impressive career. So I would love to hear from you about your catalytic journey. Can you share a few career highlights that you're proud of that? Help us see your catalytic nature.

8
00:01:26.940 --> 00:01:32.470
david omalley: Well, I think, yeah, well, and so I really appreciate the intro there very much.

9
00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:50.649
david omalley: I think if I'm to look back in my career which has probably gone longer than I really would like to have had at this stage is, you know, I kind of divide that in 2 parts the 1st half was really that strong technical background. I was a coder. I was a developer, you know, very, very happy about your proud propeller head

10
00:01:51.271 --> 00:01:57.119
david omalley: and you know I worked through, started out in your large

11
00:01:57.180 --> 00:02:23.470
david omalley: companies that were knee high in carpet, and worked my way through a series of large, then small, then large companies, until I got to to a startup, where, you know, we were rather successful in our digital journey. It was about halfway through that it was there for a number of years, but halfway through that that as a result of that success, you know, you hear about these battlefield promotions. I had to put away the keyboard and then start to focusing on the business of technology.

12
00:02:23.470 --> 00:02:39.860
david omalley: What does it mean to be a digital Sas company? How do we grow, start looking at what we were offering as a product, and not just a service that could be scaled, and we went through some very heavy scaling there at the time.

13
00:02:39.860 --> 00:03:08.289
david omalley: you know, that's a reformative time. Because we went through the digital. You know, the Internet revolution. 1st of all, everything was done on browsers. We seem to take it for granted. Now then, from the back end we went through Cloud. So you know, we moved. We were very early adopters of the cloud. You go to the social revolution, you go through the mobile revolution, and then we ended. Then we exited, and so, but I think that it was all that formative experience and gaining those skills

14
00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:38.029
david omalley: then propelled me for what was came next, which was, you know, a big, you know, jumping stone in my career, was going to work for Ge. And working in many of the businesses there for almost 6 years, which is then, you know, helped me to develop as a leader, and then move forward all of the all of the challenges that came with that, of course, in moving from one to the other. But if you know, that's that's been more or less at a 500 foot level, the way that my career has progressed over the years.

15
00:03:38.630 --> 00:03:56.129
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: When we were setting up for this, you shared a really great story that really illustrated like how your catalyst skills leverage the things that you had done, and success you've done in small startups and bring it into a behemoth like Ge. Can you tell us a little bit more about that work, and we'll put a link to the video if we can as well.

16
00:03:56.130 --> 00:04:14.549
david omalley: Yeah, absolutely well, I mean. So you know the CEO. At the time I was famous, Jeff immelt for saying, You know, I went to bed, and I was an industrial company, and I woke up and we were a software company now, obviously, that was an evolution that happened hopefully more than overnight, but there was a realization there that.

17
00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:29.799
david omalley: But the company had to get more nimble. It had to get more, digital, more customer centric. It had to start moving faster. And I think that this is the. This is the you know, we say in that video which is on my Linkedin, and we hopefully can share more of.

18
00:04:30.140 --> 00:04:37.770
david omalley: You know, large companies want to move fast. They want to create things. They want to be nimble. They desire that

19
00:04:38.030 --> 00:05:07.569
david omalley: the corporate structures and some of the bureaucracy, and to be fair in a company like Ge. Some of the regulation make that a little bit difficult. But for me I was brought into through that and break through those barriers, and was given the license to actually to be able to be successful at that. As difficult as it was, you know it was. I do think it was a great company in that it was full of people who were willing to try things in order to get a place that would make their lives better, and do well for the company.

20
00:05:08.650 --> 00:05:12.030
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm guessing there's some more learnings there that we can come back to. But I also want to get

21
00:05:12.030 --> 00:05:12.770
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: we. Just

22
00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:20.720
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: what does it mean to be a catalyst for you, a catalyst executive, or said another way, how is being a catalyst helped you in becoming an executive.

23
00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:32.629
david omalley: A lot of the. I really take an awful lot of the core skills with me when when I move forward. And and so, like a great example. As as I was joining Vns health.

24
00:05:32.820 --> 00:05:43.000
david omalley: one of the 1st things I was brought into a very sort of amorphous. It was a new role that was created was very amorphous. They wanted to diversify the revenue sources. They wanted to move faster.

25
00:05:43.590 --> 00:05:44.590
david omalley: You know.

26
00:05:44.700 --> 00:06:08.799
david omalley: What does all that mean? And and you know some of them are saying, well, that's why we hired you, you know. So one of the 1st things I did is, I gathered a group of executives, and I ran a workout like I would normally do. It took less than an hour, and it was a vision setting for my organization. I had in mind what I wanted to do, and of course I was the leader. So I got to exercise. You know the trump card anytime that I wanted to.

27
00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:09.780
david omalley: but

28
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:22.710
david omalley: you could immediately tell, wow! That's great. This is a great way of doing things. And and then, later on, when there's you know, you often have this in any company, but you often have this in large companies as well, where

29
00:06:23.020 --> 00:06:35.370
david omalley: you need to set your priorities because you need to sit down, you need to focus. And the more things you're working on, the less you're going to get done. I mean, that's just a work in progress, a whip type of axiom.

30
00:06:35.390 --> 00:06:36.500
david omalley: And

31
00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:57.920
david omalley: so that was the same thing. There was some learning, there was some presenting, and then there was some workouts, and so everybody was tactile, and the great part about it was I wasn't sitting there telling anybody, this is my vision. This is my idea. Do you agree? Will you agree? Can I buy in? And you know the typical one, then is, you have to go around to everybody and get their buy-in and send emails. It takes months.

32
00:06:57.970 --> 00:07:03.280
david omalley: It was their ideas, it was their priorities. You even had people.

33
00:07:03.490 --> 00:07:09.479
david omalley: you know. I really remember one of the the executive leadership team, you know, he said.

34
00:07:09.780 --> 00:07:13.359
david omalley: I'm I'm gonna say this, even though it's not in my best interest.

35
00:07:13.980 --> 00:07:21.739
david omalley: That's how you know you've got it. And and so, being able to take, not forgetting those skills and being able to take

36
00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:35.859
david omalley: that style of management in there. And you've got to evolve it definitely. For where you are. But for me, that's what the catalyst is. I mean, you know, a catalyst should be something that you know, that speeds up

37
00:07:36.030 --> 00:07:39.873
david omalley: anything, a process, whether it's the growing process, or

38
00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:45.920
david omalley: the the explosive process, or or something along those. It's something that that accelerates.

39
00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:49.930
david omalley: And so, if you always have it in mind that you want to be an accelerant.

40
00:07:50.440 --> 00:08:04.899
david omalley: safely and ethically, and in a way that's fair to everybody, not slash and burn. Well, then, you're able to take some of these skills and incorporate them into who you are to get things done. Large companies, small companies doesn't matter. That's the kind of way that you're able to do that.

41
00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:21.320
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing. I mean, that was an amazing definition, both of like what we embody and the framing and some of the things that tools that we can even use when we go into new organizations. I just want to check with you. You were saying workouts. You do workouts like. Is that a tool. I'm not familiar with that.

42
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:28.000
david omalley: Yeah. Well, it's a tool. I think it's probably a term that I picked up along the way. Workshops, workouts.

43
00:08:28.050 --> 00:08:32.990
david omalley: you know. Yeah, it's it's not meetings. It's interactive.

44
00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:50.719
david omalley: It's it's hands on. It's tactile, it. It raises the voice of everybody. And there's a few simple rules for what everyone should look like. But what your problems you're trying to solve depends on how you frame it. But yes, when I say a workout I do mean everybody in a room, participating in trying to achieve something.

45
00:08:50.720 --> 00:09:03.852
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I love it. I I've never heard it used that way, and I just love the energy behind it. It's like, there we're gonna be leaning in, and we're gonna be sweating. And it's gonna be hard. But we're gonna get this positive thing at the of at the other end.

46
00:09:04.465 --> 00:09:23.099
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And I also just want to say, like, you know, for our listeners, I mean, what you just said is like so classic. If we could go in as catalyst leaders and create that space and understand that people have to have their fingerprints on it. And also the part about focus. I think what you said was super interesting, too. We can't do all the things we have to prioritize, etc.

47
00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:36.000
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm wondering if you can share some of the challenges, as you've been a catalyst executive, and you know again, particularly probably in the large organizations, because, as you said earlier, is like in the smaller organizations, you can. You can just sort of be a little bit more directive.

48
00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:48.389
david omalley: Yeah, I've often used Newton's laws of motion, you know, to kind of talk about about the way you transform the way you move forward again like I said, Pro Propeller Head.

49
00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:52.410
david omalley: And you know, I think the 1st one is Newton's 1st law, which is inertia.

50
00:09:52.470 --> 00:10:06.920
david omalley: Things that stay in a State want to stay that way, and things that are moving want to move that way, and I often say, look where I have usually been placed in my career is at the 1st roll of the rock.

51
00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:17.469
david omalley: and so like, I mean again, that's that's what a catalyst should be doing. You should be catalyzing the movement or the change. Right? Well, you've got to roll the rock that 1st time

52
00:10:17.540 --> 00:10:23.279
david omalley: could be a big rock. It could be a small. It's usually a big rock, you know, I'm usually not called in for the small things.

53
00:10:23.648 --> 00:10:33.139
david omalley: Easy stuff. I wish it was. But but usually, you know, usually it's it's it's so. It's getting that rock rolling like even in in my prior team.

54
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:38.360
david omalley: You know, it was actually, you know, a part of the strategy. Who are we? What do we do?

55
00:10:38.590 --> 00:10:43.270
david omalley: We roll big rocks, that's what that is. And so

56
00:10:43.330 --> 00:10:46.140
david omalley: you know, that is a challenge.

57
00:10:46.420 --> 00:11:12.489
david omalley: That is also the payoff. By the way when you get there. But that is the challenge. How do you roll that first? st How do you get that 1st roll of the rock? And there's certain things that you have to be able to do on. And I mean, we can get into that. And you have to. You have to build trust. You have to know that there's a burning platform that people want to jump off of. You have to have good leadership who are willing to go there with you and willing to say, just just try it, just do it.

58
00:11:12.650 --> 00:11:40.239
david omalley: It helps. If you have people who are also who accept that there's a level of inertia, and and they want to be able to change that. And they want to help themselves to move out of out of the inertia. So those are all things that need to be there. But then, at the end of the day you have to turn up, or you or your team, or whoever it is, you have to turn up, and you have to provide that spark that allows the rock to roll.

59
00:11:43.170 --> 00:11:57.039
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: yes, yes, yes, yes. And so I want to ask, because you said something that's super important, which is like the strong leadership, because, you know, people are gonna be afraid of the rock falling on them, or whatever, and they need to know.

60
00:11:57.040 --> 00:11:57.520
david omalley: Sure.

61
00:11:57.520 --> 00:11:59.360
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Sort of has their back.

62
00:11:59.370 --> 00:12:27.050
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm wondering how, if you have any tips to understand, because if you went to most leaders today and said, Does your organization need to change? Of course they would say yes. But then, at some point for catalyst, we start to encounter more and more resistance, and we start to find out how much, how how comfortable the leadership was actually with change. I'm wondering if you have any insights into how to access assess the actual appetite for change in the organization, like how big a rock.

63
00:12:27.050 --> 00:12:28.250
david omalley: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

64
00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:35.280
david omalley: Sure. I I mean. So look, that's that. By the way, is just human nature, you know. Everybody wants change. No one wants to be changed.

65
00:12:37.310 --> 00:12:43.330
david omalley: and that's fair. I get that. I understand that that can be scary. And there's there's a lot of questions that need to be asked.

66
00:12:43.790 --> 00:13:01.310
david omalley: You know, when you're going in, I've always in some of the larger sort of transformation work that I've been involved with. I do remember, at 1 point in time I was working for for a leader who had left Ge. And come back, and she was great. I mean she was, you know, again she was catalytic herself.

67
00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:02.720
david omalley: and

68
00:13:03.010 --> 00:13:10.989
david omalley: you know we we were looking for people to buy in on on this program. We were looking for those people there was an easy route to be an accelerant.

69
00:13:11.260 --> 00:13:17.149
david omalley: and there was one particular executive who who just didn't say Yes.

70
00:13:17.630 --> 00:13:21.459
david omalley: right. And there was a big. Well, what now?

71
00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:26.289
david omalley: And I said, I said, you work with the willing.

72
00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:39.439
david omalley: Don't don't waste your time like I mean, there's that old saying, don't waste your time knocking your head against a wall, hoping it turns into a door. It's not going to happen. So what do you do? You get your wins? You get your wins elsewhere. I mean, I think what's interesting about the

73
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:45.329
david omalley: the you know sort of what I would call the the kind of the the flagship. Sort of

74
00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:59.159
david omalley: moment that that I personally had a ge. And it was. It was a result of a lot of people. By the way, it's not me, but it was a result of a lot of people who who bought in and went forward on that was it was not the 1st evolution

75
00:13:59.660 --> 00:14:08.939
david omalley: you know, the 1st evolution was messy. It was difficult. It was, you know, we sign up for these things. We're like, how are we going to do that. But it was born out of a

76
00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:38.510
david omalley: you know. The leaders who did that was it was born out of a sense of a couple of things. 1st of all, frustration at how slow things were moving and how we weren't engaging, and how we weren't just just weren't just weren't connecting and hitting the mark on things, and then number 2. It was. It was people who were who were willing to take a risk to actually put their name out there. I mean, these were leaders who actually said, No, we're going to do this, you know. Everybody you know meet us in this location. Xyz, all that kind of thing

77
00:14:38.510 --> 00:14:55.820
david omalley: because we're going to do this. And I even remember someone I eventually ended up reporting to and working for, you know, in the beginning they were like, no, no, no, it's fine. I got this. It's okay. We don't need you or anything like that.

78
00:14:55.950 --> 00:15:16.840
david omalley: Eventually I kind of talked my way into the conversation. I, you know, said, you know what. Don't worry. I got the budget. I'll pay for my own trip down to the New Orleans digital center, and it wasn't great, you know, as we said, everybody, even this leader said, and we came in here to create a unicorn. We end up with a donkey with a carrot stuck to its head.

79
00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:28.929
david omalley: But that's okay, because we all got together and we tried this thing. And I guarantee you if we spend another week. At this we'd be doing it well. And so there was. There was that, and there was a realization that like, here's all the things that worked positively.

80
00:15:29.487 --> 00:15:35.930
david omalley: Let's let's hone that. Let's let's take. Let's define what good looks like, and let's build towards that.

81
00:15:36.610 --> 00:15:42.049
david omalley: And so I'm not sure if I've answered your question, but but you know when you talk about but but leaders.

82
00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:50.689
david omalley: you know, there are going to be people who maybe, even if they're not necessarily catalytic themselves. These were died in the world. Ge. People

83
00:15:50.800 --> 00:16:01.640
david omalley: who I used to joke wouldn't have hired me 5 years ago. Who? Who still wanted to see that they want that to be their legacy and nobody nobody goes through.

84
00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.069
david omalley: He normally goes to business school, and you know, to to sit in meetings.

85
00:16:06.150 --> 00:16:11.430
david omalley: You know you mean you you don't do that. I mean, it's not what it's not your aspiration, I mean. Go ask kids, what do you want to be.

86
00:16:11.430 --> 00:16:12.000
david omalley: you know.

87
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:20.969
david omalley: You'll hear, you know, astronaut doctor, you know, firefighter, that no one says I want to be in a planning meeting, and so

88
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:27.949
david omalley: like to some degree what you're what you really need to say is, you need to say I'm going to give you that world that you really thought about.

89
00:16:27.950 --> 00:16:28.360
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

90
00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:33.140
david omalley: Going to get all the benefits of it. You're going to look good, even if you're not the one necessarily doing it.

91
00:16:33.300 --> 00:16:38.999
david omalley: you know, if you're an empathetic leader and you care about what you're trying to achieve and who's trying to achieve it?

92
00:16:39.270 --> 00:16:48.900
david omalley: You'll take a risk on that. You'll take a shot on that again. The catalyst then has to turn up and execute. But that's the start to finding those leaders engaging them.

93
00:16:49.680 --> 00:17:19.279
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Really good takeaways from that. I mean, I think it's an important, you know, one of the key. There's a lot of wisdom in there. One of the key things you said is like, don't waste your time on the true resistors like find the coalition of the willing, and that can be hard for us, and it can. I mean, I think there's a there's a complexity there which is like knowing which resistors might be the actual thing in the system that could put everything on hold. But then I like what you said, which is like, and then just start small right? Start small with a coalition of the willing and bring the wins along.

94
00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:30.799
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And finally, I think the last point that you had was like, find what those other stakeholders care about what their specific wins are, you know, like no one wants to be

95
00:17:30.870 --> 00:17:37.079
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: part of the narrative of, we're not helping our company future proof, right? So you have to find the thing that they care about

96
00:17:37.415 --> 00:17:41.810
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: any other challenges about creating change in large organizations as a catalyst exec.

97
00:17:41.810 --> 00:17:51.839
david omalley: Yeah, keeping it, making it stick, not having it wallpapered over after you. You take your foot off the gas. I mean that is, that is, that is a big one, I mean, I often say.

98
00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:55.950
david omalley: if people under stress revert back to their base nature.

99
00:17:56.080 --> 00:18:01.909
david omalley: whatever that is, you know, I mean, you know, as a human, as a parent, as a as a, as a you know

100
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:19.935
david omalley: coach of a little League team, whatever it is, when you're under stress. You kind of you kind of do that. It's the same in in large organizations, you know. You might run up against a rock of one thing, and it could be. You know you've you've had a bad quarter, and it's not your fault.

101
00:18:20.310 --> 00:18:26.100
david omalley: could be. You have a leadership change, and they have a different perspective on things, or it could just be that it's not working.

102
00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:31.420
david omalley: You know. You're not seeing the fruits of your labor. You're seeing progress, but you're not, you know. It's right, but it's not quite there, and

103
00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:35.539
david omalley: you know, I think it's I think that is often

104
00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:41.179
david omalley: very, very difficult. I was was talking to someone there recently, just just

105
00:18:41.420 --> 00:18:55.099
david omalley: touching base with them, and they said that they were in they were like one of these, all hands, you know, meetings where they were trying to move forward on that. And there was 6 h of Powerpoint slides, and then, you know, an hour of lunch, and then an hour of how we gonna move forward on this. And

106
00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:59.770
david omalley: he, you know, he, you know, he said at 1 point in time he looked up at all the people in the room.

107
00:18:59.810 --> 00:19:05.975
david omalley: and there were. He could almost see it looking at them, saying, Remember how we used to do this.

108
00:19:06.340 --> 00:19:08.549
david omalley: I would, I would say. You know you've

109
00:19:08.590 --> 00:19:13.689
david omalley: you know, now we're guilty in into culture, would, if you're if you're trying to

110
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:23.549
david omalley: to implement the mechanisms that do make you faster and more nimble, more customer, responsive, and also make it a better place to work

111
00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:29.929
david omalley: you. You're now talking about how you evolve your culture culture is what you do.

112
00:19:30.270 --> 00:19:46.240
david omalley: It's not what you say you do. It's not what you pretend to do. It's not what somebody writes on a website, or they put at the end of a job posting. Here's our principles. It's actually what you do. And you should all of that stuff

113
00:19:46.270 --> 00:19:52.080
david omalley: should flow down from what people actually do, and and how they go about their work. And if this is

114
00:19:52.220 --> 00:20:00.989
david omalley: this comes back to. I think it was Tom Shook who who brought Tqm. To to the United States many, many years ago.

115
00:20:01.050 --> 00:20:08.510
david omalley: You know he has even you can even take a look. The shook model of of behavior, change of culture change. It starts with doing things.

116
00:20:08.540 --> 00:20:17.199
david omalley: and when you do things that will translate into you know your principles and your principles will then turn into what your culture is. So

117
00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:18.400
david omalley: you know.

118
00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:24.509
david omalley: But you've got that is like, I like change and culture change. I it's like the tide.

119
00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:28.590
david omalley: you know when you're sitting on the beach. The tide comes in slowly.

120
00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:42.299
david omalley: you know. It comes in one wave at a time, and you look down. You'll eventually oh, I got to move my chair right. For the most part you get some of those people, but mostly it comes in like that. When the tide's going out, you just look up and the water's gone.

121
00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:52.509
david omalley: So you I mean, that's that's a lesson that everybody should have. You take your eye off the ball off the culture ball and leaders should be ensuring that we have good culture.

122
00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:53.810
david omalley: Then

123
00:20:53.850 --> 00:21:02.889
david omalley: then it's going to be gone. It's going to be back to the thing that you that you started with. Or maybe it's not. Maybe it's going to be some other culture that you haven't deliberately practiced.

124
00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:06.660
david omalley: and and you're left stuck with that, because your culture is what you do.

125
00:21:08.738 --> 00:21:13.269
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So much to unpack. There, I'm trying to think about where to start.

126
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.690
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: The

127
00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:42.620
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: you helped me see something which is even when we leave you know, as the innovation leader, as we were trying to as we were doing, culture change, because to your point you can't be innovative, or do disruption, or anything without culture. I I had this like mourning of the thing, the authenticity of the thing that we were building kind of dissipated, but it is interesting to think about, but it was still changed right? So like, how do we like? Sort of, you know, stay attached to some of that.

128
00:21:42.710 --> 00:22:03.340
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I totally agree with you as a as any kind of leader who's driving emerging technologies, business, whatever. The culture is so foundational. But we don't usually sit in Hr. And Hr. Doesn't necessarily have the kpis or the you know the things that are driving them that are aligned to the people like yourself

129
00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:12.710
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: to drive culture change. So have you found success in working with Hr. Like, how have you driven culture change when that might not be the official mandate of of your role.

130
00:22:13.630 --> 00:22:15.239
david omalley: I think. Well, I well.

131
00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:21.579
david omalley: I like to think I I my official mandate, is always culture change. It's just one aspect of that culture change.

132
00:22:21.580 --> 00:22:22.080
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Okay.

133
00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:30.209
david omalley: Everybody has different aspects of that, and I think Hr. Gets is is, you know, it doesn't get a fair shake, you know, to be honest

134
00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:38.180
david omalley: because they're kind of considered. Hire me, somebody, or you know, tell me what I can and can't do, and make me go to a mandatory training and things like that.

135
00:22:38.340 --> 00:22:42.860
david omalley: But you know, and and there's a lot of pressure that that's put on those folks.

136
00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:49.930
david omalley: But but without a doubt, I mean, I think, even if we start talking about about, you know, training at different levels.

137
00:22:50.650 --> 00:23:02.540
david omalley: And so like, yeah, I have come across. Well, I've come across Hr departments that have done nothing. I've come across Hr. Departments that have done things that are solitary, and then I've come across ones that actually have a vision for how they want

138
00:23:02.560 --> 00:23:13.779
david omalley: to be able to improve the operations of a company through the the resources that are most important. Remember the business of businesses people. So

139
00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:25.630
david omalley: you know, affecting the actual people. And and that could be like, I mean, mandatory training for everyone who becomes a manager. And you'd be surprised at how many people are given managerial roles.

140
00:23:25.700 --> 00:23:30.320
david omalley: and they're they. They just keep on doing their old job.

141
00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:39.500
david omalley: you know. That's not what you're supposed to do, and they're never trained to go forward. It's there's a there's, I mean. Look! I'm not the only one who says this. By the way.

142
00:23:39.510 --> 00:23:49.180
david omalley: one of the one of the a book that really affected me, and it's something I try to really bring into into my work is something called extreme Ownership.

143
00:23:49.260 --> 00:23:52.689
david omalley: And this was written by by some navy seals.

144
00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:57.940
david omalley: and they actually they they looked at it. And they said, Why do some teams

145
00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:01.340
david omalley: come out of here and do really well, and some teams don't.

146
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:07.060
david omalley: And they they actually came down. They said, we don't give specific training to the people who are supposed to lead them.

147
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:17.510
david omalley: So we're just going to take the leaders. And we're actually going to give them leadership training, which is an interesting concept because you kind of think about. We've given you the role because you're a good leader.

148
00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:26.539
david omalley: And so we want you to lead, or you, maybe you've been here a little longer. Maybe you're more experienced. Or maybe you're very good at the tactile and the the operational stuff.

149
00:24:27.050 --> 00:24:29.010
david omalley: That's different from leadership.

150
00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:46.150
david omalley: Right? That's different from you, I said. Years ago I stopped being a developer. And now I had to start leading a product forward, a company forward on their product journey. And it's a whole different set of skills, and it's re like, do you think I was tempted

151
00:24:46.660 --> 00:24:51.709
david omalley: to go down to the engineers and say you're you're architecting it wrong? Yes, I was.

152
00:24:52.200 --> 00:25:00.439
david omalley: you know, was I probably still the best architect on the team? Well, I you know. Yeah, I mean, I didn't get. You know. I didn't take the next role, because I was the worst one.

153
00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:12.090
david omalley: although because maybe maybe that happens. But but you can't do that. And I was very fortunate. I had a very good people leader at the time, who coached me very well through that process.

154
00:25:12.320 --> 00:25:16.090
david omalley: So getting back to your thing, I mean, I think everybody

155
00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:24.600
david omalley: has the ability to change at a certain level. But I do think, yeah, I do think, making sure there should be a people strategy.

156
00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:36.120
david omalley: whether you're a leader, whether you're the chief people officer or where you're the CEO. There should be a people strategy. You should know what that is, and it should be like all strategies, deliberate.

157
00:25:36.270 --> 00:25:38.290
david omalley: not accidental, deliberate.

158
00:25:38.540 --> 00:26:03.729
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, it's so fascinating the number of companies that we work with when we go in and do catalyst programs, we do a kind of a cultural assessment to make sure that we're fit for purpose. And there's often a disconnect between the aspirational culture that they're talking about and the current culture. And I think your point about making sure that you're deliberately implementing the vision that you have for the culture is super important. I think also, you're right like catalyst. I mean any leader in any role. But catalyst leaders in particular

159
00:26:03.730 --> 00:26:08.609
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: can help lean in and accelerate that, even if it's not like officially, our our job description

160
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:24.509
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: all right. Next question any other pearls of wisdom, because you've done. You've driven so much impact in so many organizations. Any other pearls of wisdom for other catalyst leaders like it can be hard to get to the exact level as a catalyst. So what are your insights around that.

161
00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:35.930
david omalley: Yeah, it absolutely. Can. I? I mean, I think you have to look for for your opportunities to find the right people who are trying to do the right things, even if they don't know exactly what that looks like.

162
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:41.050
david omalley: And so it's very much a human, focused endeavor.

163
00:26:41.860 --> 00:26:56.460
david omalley: You you will have to network and tell your story wide and far to be able to get there. I mean the you know, like I said, I'm not told you this, but I am interviewed 4 times at Ge. And I have 4 no's.

164
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:05.489
david omalley: and you know one of them was actually about 3 months before I actually joined, and I got many versions of the

165
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:32.309
david omalley: you're you're you'd be bored. Here was actually one of the things that someone told you'd be bored here. We don't do that kind of thing. We're dyed in the wool. We're knee high in carpet. We're more structured process oriented, which, by the way, it's not to say, if you're a catalyst, you're not process oriented. It's not that you're not systems oriented, you are. You absolutely 100% are. You should know yourself. You should know what your systems are, and you should know how they work in particular situations. But but it was networking

166
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:39.650
david omalley: that eventually, you know, got me past that hump and and got me in there. Now, you know.

167
00:27:39.790 --> 00:27:47.940
david omalley: I'm on record as saying, I nearly ran away, you know, within 3 months, moving from a tiny company to something. That's a behemoth.

168
00:27:48.020 --> 00:27:57.469
david omalley: But it was. It was a it was a. It was a steep learning curve. But I think if if you're a catalyst, I mean. So a combination of those things. So 1st of all, it's finding the right opportunity

169
00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:11.669
david omalley: for you. Right? It's it's truly finding a place where you have an you have executives who are saying people at the highest level saying, Look, we have to change. We want to change. We have to change. And if it's if it's coming from a sort of a

170
00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:18.579
david omalley: you know, maybe a group leader buried 3 deep within the operations. I mean, that's great. It's great that they want to change, but

171
00:28:18.840 --> 00:28:37.559
david omalley: their ability to actually influence others to change might not be as strong. I've even seen like I've seen it. Where in in large companies, where the highest at the highest level, they're saying, we are going to change. We are going to do this, and people treat it as optional.

172
00:28:37.820 --> 00:28:49.710
david omalley: and you're going to have your later doctors and all that kind of thing, and that's fair. I understand that I get where people are, but but people treat it as optional. You want to make sure you're in a place where you're not treated as optional.

173
00:28:50.013 --> 00:28:53.699
david omalley: You're seen as a way for everybody to get to the next level.

174
00:28:53.970 --> 00:28:59.570
david omalley: and you know, so you know I was. I was. I was lucky to get that through a number of people.

175
00:29:00.338 --> 00:29:10.950
david omalley: But that's that's number one. And then but you gotta know yourself. On top of that. You gotta know who you are, what you do how you do things. Gotta have your own set of principles and write them down.

176
00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:23.910
david omalley: Put them in your your on a post, and look at them every day on your computer. And and then you you gotta live those, you gotta. You've gotta you've got to empower others also to

177
00:29:24.100 --> 00:29:30.200
david omalley: to bring their principles, and then to to conform in with yours

178
00:29:30.340 --> 00:29:41.269
david omalley: as a leader. Right? Because as a leader, you're expected to do that you're expected to come with a set of principles on on how to operate and on what to do. So I think that that's that's what you can do.

179
00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:47.860
david omalley: no matter where you're working yourself. If if you want to take a catalytic approach to the next level.

180
00:29:50.130 --> 00:30:00.129
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Also just such good advice. So I want to go back to the networking. And you said, Tell your story, and you're an amazing storyteller, and it's such a important thing. It often feels.

181
00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:00.920
david omalley: Irish.

182
00:30:01.080 --> 00:30:25.180
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It often feels bad for catalysts, like, I think, a lot of, like other high potential programs where people are, you know. Yes, they crush their kpis, but they spend a lot of time managing up, which is how they have the visibility, etc. And as catalysts, we're often working in the seams across things that don't have a business leader yet and don't have defined Kpis and also we're usually just so in service of

183
00:30:25.455 --> 00:30:43.099
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: realizing the vision or the change that it feels like bad to us to network and tell our story. I'm wondering like, do you have advice for how to navigate that room. Because let's be clear. No one else is going to tell our story, and if we want up, you know the space to to lead change we need. We need the sponsorship.

184
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:55.779
david omalley: Yeah, I I think what you what you said. You know I was. I remember I talking to someone once, and they said, I need someone who isn't afraid to walk into the white space. And their example of that was.

185
00:30:55.940 --> 00:31:01.339
david omalley: how did how did the people who 1st started to chart Everest in K. 2,

186
00:31:01.560 --> 00:31:17.000
david omalley: you know. How do they? They were actually trying to map it, and they didn't know where they were going. How did like? How did they a. Have the bravery to do it? And B. And there's books written about this, as well, you know, so I won't try and recite what the answer was on that. But you have to be very comfortable in that.

187
00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:22.409
david omalley: and that's not easy, you know. It is. It is rather difficult.

188
00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:28.720
david omalley: But I think

189
00:31:30.470 --> 00:31:35.479
david omalley: you're going to have to operate in a way that the Kpi is. We got something started.

190
00:31:36.020 --> 00:31:40.140
david omalley: and we were able to give that to somebody else, then to operate.

191
00:31:40.490 --> 00:31:46.039
david omalley: You know you like, learn how to tell stories number one.

192
00:31:46.070 --> 00:31:57.279
david omalley: because it's going to help you actually make the change. People feel much more comfortable when they're hearing stories about. About why am I in a room? You know you sit down a Powerpoint versus? Why am I in a room. Let me tell you a story

193
00:31:57.710 --> 00:32:07.699
david omalley: right? I just want to tell you something and tell something that everybody understands. So we you know, I was coaching one of my vps for new ventures and investments. And

194
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:24.590
david omalley: we sat down and we realized that everybody was going. We're going to ask them to do things that wasn't on the roadmap and all that kind of thing. And so what's the story on on helping this new company that we invested in? Be at the anchor client for us, right? Nobody. Nobody planned this a year ago.

195
00:32:24.620 --> 00:32:25.760
david omalley: It's it's

196
00:32:25.800 --> 00:32:36.000
david omalley: it's rapid, and we have to do this. So you know, we we sit down? And we said, Well, think about what does everyone have in common? Everyone in that room at 1 point in time was a college graduate.

197
00:32:36.350 --> 00:32:40.399
david omalley: And you think about where you were when you came out, you came out with all this energy.

198
00:32:40.550 --> 00:32:43.930
david omalley: You came out like you mean you think about you? You were going to change the world.

199
00:32:43.970 --> 00:32:48.769
david omalley: you know you you had this new education. You had this new way of doing things.

200
00:32:48.970 --> 00:33:03.040
david omalley: and you get out there in the world, and you realize you don't really know anything. You don't have the experience. Nobody takes you very seriously as well when you're at that age, or certainly not change the world status level, serious.

201
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:04.390
david omalley: And

202
00:33:04.810 --> 00:33:23.390
david omalley: if you're lucky, what do you get? You get somebody who who mentors you in the way things should work right. Who tells you the little things? Hey? This is what you should do. This is how you should prepare yourself. This is how you should come to work. This is how you should turn up at meetings. Don't be afraid to say this next time. Why don't you?

203
00:33:23.390 --> 00:33:45.060
david omalley: You know? And and you grow and you develop beyond that. And then when you get to that older self, you might have become too too formalized or systemized in the organization that you're with. And you do really wish that you were that kid again, who really believed that they could go change the world. And so what we actually said, was

204
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.109
david omalley: this startup that we're trying to bring in? It is you? When you left college.

205
00:33:51.080 --> 00:33:55.070
david omalley: and you now have a chance to be that person who helped you

206
00:33:55.090 --> 00:34:00.200
david omalley: advance to where you are now, or if you didn't have that person, the person you wish you had.

207
00:34:01.020 --> 00:34:04.719
david omalley: and it was, you know, 5 min of a story.

208
00:34:05.050 --> 00:34:09.079
david omalley: And everyone's like, Yeah, what do we need to do.

209
00:34:09.080 --> 00:34:10.630
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing. It's amazing.

210
00:34:10.630 --> 00:34:15.210
david omalley: Again. I'm not saying that there weren't problems of which we, you know, we had to keep on coming back to this.

211
00:34:15.290 --> 00:34:31.689
david omalley: But you know when you when you learn. And you you said we were introduced to to Susan, who's you know I affectionately call my storytelling coach you know, the you know, being able to being able to think in those ideas makes it a human connection.

212
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:37.410
david omalley: And and people will remember that because they have been through that situation as well.

213
00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:42.599
david omalley: and so tell stories. Tell your own stories. But then, as you're trying to foment that change.

214
00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:46.040
david omalley: tell it through the lens of of a story.

215
00:34:46.850 --> 00:34:52.859
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I love it. It's so captivating. You can like feel the energy reconnecting with that younger self. It's it's it's brilliant.

216
00:34:53.429 --> 00:34:56.159
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: all right. Final fun. Question hopefully.

217
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:56.629
david omalley: Go on!

218
00:34:56.630 --> 00:35:02.580
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Your favorite inspirational, catalyst, past or present. And why? Why do they inspire you.

219
00:35:05.890 --> 00:35:08.570
david omalley: Okay, so I'll go back to when I was a kid. Then

220
00:35:08.950 --> 00:35:12.050
david omalley: I have to say, Jimi Hendrix.

221
00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:14.889
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Woo. All right, bring it.

222
00:35:16.040 --> 00:35:38.540
david omalley: I mean. I remember I played guitar. It wasn't great, but I love playing the guitar 1st acoustic, and then I get into electric and things like. I remember I had a friend. I would listen to a little bit of Clapton, and I would try to play a little bit of that, and and some of that early stuff. I really like blues music. My dad was a huge blues aficionado, and

223
00:35:38.570 --> 00:35:41.870
david omalley: you know, remember, just back in the day Cassettes, by the way.

224
00:35:42.040 --> 00:35:47.159
david omalley: and a guy said to me, a friend of mine said, he said, if if you if you're if you listen to this.

225
00:35:47.530 --> 00:35:51.769
david omalley: I remember him getting the Jimi Hendrix live in Monterey.

226
00:35:51.970 --> 00:36:08.159
david omalley: which was what 1967, or something like that I can't remember before I was born, and you know it's got this. It's a cassette, and it's got the the picture of him with the, you know, burning the the guitar on on stage, and I remember I took it home, and I plugged into a walkman. You know the

227
00:36:08.270 --> 00:36:21.399
david omalley: the big Fuzzies earphones on, and I even remember I remember like it was Ireland was October, it was cold, and there was. There was a Christmas in the air, and I press play. I still get chills, thinking about, I press play.

228
00:36:21.470 --> 00:36:25.220
david omalley: and there's a bit of an intro, and then on comes the killing floor.

229
00:36:26.010 --> 00:36:28.110
david omalley: Listen to that, intro.

230
00:36:28.390 --> 00:36:35.289
david omalley: just listen to that, and pretend that you're a kid who wants to play the guitar electric guitar for the rest of your life.

231
00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:39.929
david omalley: and how? It's just like my eyes were bowling in my head. I was thinking, what am I listening to?

232
00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:42.480
david omalley: What am I listening to? What is this?

233
00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:44.319
david omalley: This isn't this isn't.

234
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:55.950
david omalley: This is something different. It's a it's another dimension of sound that I haven't heard before, and it wasn't, you know. It wasn't that. The quality of the sound was a live recording was the way it was played.

235
00:36:56.110 --> 00:37:05.110
david omalley: and you know I often kind of think about what it was like. Back then I met one person who saw Hendrix play at a club in

236
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:12.810
david omalley: in in London, and and he couldn't even talk about what the experience was like, because he didn't even know he was going to see Hendrix.

237
00:37:13.660 --> 00:37:22.309
david omalley: and so yeah, I think you know, I think you, I listen to one of your podcasts and somebody said, their catalyst was Simone biles, right.

238
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:32.560
david omalley: And here's the way I I look at it. I think the absolute best are the ones they change the game, for they changed the system for right. So

239
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:46.329
david omalley: with Simone Biles, they had to change the scoring system. They couldn't score it anymore. Nobody's done that before. I mean, they haven't like they haven't made basketball. They haven't made the the court wider smaller to accommodate for somebody who's really good in music.

240
00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:55.990
david omalley: you know. Hendrix got such sounds out of his his equipment. That wasn't natural. They actually had to go and make amplifiers that would recreate

241
00:37:56.110 --> 00:38:10.389
david omalley: the Hendrix sound that he was naturally able to bring through just with his command of the instrument and his command of the stage and the system, and everything that was around him. And so, yeah, I think you know.

242
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:16.109
david omalley: it'll never happen. But you asked me, you know, little jam session with Hendrix.

243
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:17.280
david omalley: That'd be fun.

244
00:38:17.810 --> 00:38:25.180
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing, and thank you for the amazing storytelling. I wrote it down. I don't know that one man, obviously, I know Hendrix, but I'm going to go. Listen to that this evening, so thank you for that.

245
00:38:25.180 --> 00:38:25.570
david omalley: Wonderful.

246
00:38:25.570 --> 00:38:30.219
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: David, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom with our audience.

247
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:36.090
david omalley: Appreciate you having me. It's been fantastic. And I look forward to more of this podcast going forward.

248
00:38:36.430 --> 00:39:04.380
Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thank you and to our listeners. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to learn more about how to create bold, powerful change in the world. Be sure to check out our book, move fast, break, shit, burn out, or go to our website at catalystconstellations.com. If you enjoyed this episode and the storytelling as much as I did. Please take 10 seconds to rate it on itunes, spotify stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast and of course. If you have other catalysts in your life, hit the share button and send a link there bye. Thanks. Again.