Andy Lopata, Relationship Strategist and Author: To Lead, First Listen

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I'm Tracy Lovejoy.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And I'm Shannon, Lucas. We are the co-ceos of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalyst to create bold, powerful change in the world.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Today I am incredibly incredibly excited for us to welcome, to move fast. Break ship, burnout, Andy Lopata, Andy, will you wave? Hello.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Andy is a distinguished expert in professional relationships with over 25 years. Experience is that what we're going with now, Andy? 25.

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Andy Lopata: Yes, yeah, I'm I'm I'm about 26 years now. So.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: You are a hall of fame, speaker, and author of 6 influential books, and you dive deep into the art of networking and mentoring, and we have learned already so much from you. Your newest book, The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring a Complete Guide to effective Mentoring, was out earlier this year and was runner up is leadership book of the year. Congratulations! What a wonderful thing to celebrate!

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: You bring insights that have graced audiences globally from Google to the BBC. Amazing names to be affiliated with. And today we are so excited to have you bring your treasure trove of strategies to our catalyst listeners, helping them network and become much more powerful in the relationships they build. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here with us, Andy.

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Andy Lopata: Thank you so much for inviting me on. I've been looking forward to this. And anyone listening rather than watching on the. Podcast I apologize because you said Wave, Hello! So I waved, which must have sounded really weird to anyone who's on audio. Only so I'll make up for that now. Hello.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: We get to watch you, and we know that some folks tune in on video, it is easy to forget. So thank you for keeping us honest there, Andy, that's great.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: So I just got to name a couple of things that we know sit in your bio, and one thing we love to do is have catalyst leaders be able to introduce themselves. And so we'd love to have you share with us a few career highlights that help us see your catalytic nature, and these can be moments you feel proud of where you were driving, or for many of us as catalysts. They may be the moments that you got fired or kind of rage quit because things were at a point as a catalyst that just

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: couldn't take over to you.

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Andy Lopata: Yeah, it's interesting. When, when I was looking at this this conversation coming up, I went back, and I went to the definition of a catalyst again. And I went back to our podcast when you appeared on mine.

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Andy Lopata: And it's it's all about instigating or accelerating change. And I think that that's been in my DNA from an early stage which early in my career wasn't necessarily a good thing, because I didn't quite know how to direct that energy.

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Andy Lopata: So when you talk about the moments when you quit or or left a job in a rage.

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Andy Lopata: some of that would have happened because of my frustration and my my inability ironically given what I do now, but my inability to build the right relationships to create the change that I saw the need for or to earn the respect, first, st to be able to make the observation. So I, my 1st 4

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Andy Lopata: years in permanent roles post uni, were in 2 civil service jobs. So the British public service, and just like the Us, I'm sure, is the same. It's very conservative with a small C. You know, it's an environment where people don't traditionally

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Andy Lopata: embrace change. And I stress traditionally, because I've had a call this today with with one of the departments I used to work with, and I was with a group of change makers. So I think that culture is shifting certainly, since all that time ago, when I worked there, but you know you weren't necessarily warmly embraced. If you were a catalyst straight out of university

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Andy Lopata: particularly, and and I had people in my team I was managing who'd been in their job longer than I'd been alive at that stage so so that that immediately springs to mind. I think about when I came into the world of networking and professional relationships

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Andy Lopata: 26 years ago, and I I recognized quite quickly the

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Andy Lopata: networking was a great buzzword, and it was starting back then to grow in popularity in the Uk. But it wasn't really front of mind, and it wasn't natural. I'd never heard of the word until my father started a business network. So whereas it might be embedded in us culture in Uk culture, it was less so and particularly a quarter of a century ago.

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Andy Lopata: you know, post 2,008 and post pandemic. It's it's much better understood.

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Andy Lopata: But what I recognize was that we, we, my father and his business partner, had co-founded a business network. I came in to join them. After 6 months. We were creating these meetings for local businesses. We were giving them an agenda and telling them what to do, but we weren't showing them how to do it.

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Andy Lopata: So I created training to show them how.

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Andy Lopata: But then I realized they didn't know why they were doing it in the 1st place.

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Andy Lopata: So then I created the training to show them why. And and that was sort of the

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Andy Lopata: the. The journey for me was one where, when, when it came to training of networking, people always used to talk about networking skills. And I started talking about networking strategy.

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Andy Lopata: And interestingly, I googled it at the time.

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Andy Lopata: and I couldn't find anyone else anywhere talking about networking strategy. We're talking about 2,007.

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Andy Lopata: I did subsequently find that 2 people I knew were talking about networking strategy, but they weren't

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Andy Lopata: active on social media. They weren't putting it so they were doing it under the radar, so to speak. But generally it wasn't being talked about. We talked about skills. We talked about you, Susan Rowan's phrase, how to work the room.

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Andy Lopata: but never! Why, you're in the room in the 1st place.

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Andy Lopata: and then for me that, you know, and there are missing a number of catalytic points, if you like, but just as a summary of some of the things that spring to mind

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Andy Lopata: the other thing for me on my journey.

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Andy Lopata: as as now, as someone who.

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Andy Lopata: I guess, would want to be defined as a thought leader. I never think that's a definition you can apply to yourself. It's something that other people have to apply to you, and I would hope they would.

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Andy Lopata: You can only be a thought leader if you're ahead of the crowd, and that requires catalytic moments

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Andy Lopata: where, you know, I started talking about networking strategy. You've probably heard that phrase countless times now

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Andy Lopata: 2,007, you wouldn't have done so. I had to move forward and and reframe and reframe. I now talk about professional relationship strategy. I don't use the word networking anywhere near to the degree I did. It's very much a secondary or tertiary word for me now, because of the perceptions it brings up for people.

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Andy Lopata: And by talking about professional relationship strategy, we're now saying you need to think more thoughtfully and purposefully about something you take for granted. And let's forget about this networking word. And just focus on this. That means more. So

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Andy Lopata: we're starting to see that be talked about more, and there are certain things that I've talked about, and you see them enter a more common conversation, more common dialogue, and and I take that as a tick in the box

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Andy Lopata: that I've made a difference, and that's what I'm always aspiring to do. What's next? What can I do to move this forward? Because the second I rest on my laurels, and I'll I'll this will be the last catalystic moment I'll share in this answer. Is, I remember a number of years ago I delivered a training session for a client

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Andy Lopata: in professional services. They were a lawyer or an accountant, or a bank, something similar to that.

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Andy Lopata: And I delivered this material that I had developed that hadn't been out there before.

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Andy Lopata: that I knew was original time. I developed it, and when the feedback came back.

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Andy Lopata: Someone has said, It's all very well and good, but we've heard this before. We need new ideas.

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Andy Lopata: so you cannot rest on your laurels. You may pat yourself on the back and say, I've changed the conversation, or I've come up with new ideas. I've I've produced new models.

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Andy Lopata: but then, if they're any good.

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Andy Lopata: Other people start delivering that as well.

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Andy Lopata: and then you just become one amongst the pack.

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Andy Lopata: So for me, that's 1 of the biggest prompts to say, Okay, what's next? To drive this forward?

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Oh, that like

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: that left me in an exhausted place, and I know you know I'll move us on. But now I get so curious of like, what does that take, Andy? And what does that look like to? Always with the goal of others naming you a thought leader, and knowing that there's kind of a short shelf life before your ideas are widely distributed.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: How does that show up in your everyday.

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Andy Lopata: Well, 1st of all, there's a short shelf life, if your ideas are widely distributed, so they've got to be good

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Andy Lopata: and they've got to be resonant, otherwise they won't be widely distributed. So you can. But you won't be a thought leader because no one's following so so those are the things that go together. What does it show like every day?

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Andy Lopata: I'm not sitting there every day and saying, What's the new idea today?

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Andy Lopata: But what I am doing is

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Andy Lopata: I I'm I need to be active, delivering content. And you know the clients I work with are demanding.

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Andy Lopata: and they expect the best, and they pay well for the best, so

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Andy Lopata: I cannot rest on my laurels, and I need to. I can't just say, Oh, they want this talk, therefore I will deliver this.

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Andy Lopata: I I insist on briefing calls, and I ask about the audience, and I ask about their expectations, and we talk about how this will work and how that will work. And that's how I generate new ideas. I have a monthly blog for psychology today.

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Andy Lopata: and sometimes I'll interview people for it, and I'll get exposed to new ideas through that. I'll I have to think about. What can I write about that? People will want to read.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Andy Lopata: And writing for a publication like psychology today.

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Andy Lopata: where I have an editor who will tell me, no, this isn't good enough really close

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Andy Lopata: me to to say, is there value in this Ruth Gautien, who, you know, my co-author with the Financial Times Guide to Mentoring and I. We submit articles, and we're published by Harvard Business Review.

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Andy Lopata: We really have to hit the mark with something fresh and new and innovative. If we're going to be published there, I have my podcast, where I'm talking to thought leaders and high achievers from around the world in all manner of fields that's exposing me to new ideas and

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Andy Lopata: give you an example of that

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Andy Lopata: on my podcast which you you've both been on the topic of curiosity

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Andy Lopata: kept coming up, even though I wasn't asking about it.

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Andy Lopata: and I wasn't speaking about it, and I had one particular interview where this came to a head. So there were 2 interviews that stand out. One was with a lady called Daniela Landher, and Daniela is a former global talent manager or leader with Google.

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Andy Lopata: And Daniela came up with this wonderful quote that I've repeated so many times can do it again. Now it's it's it's in the book.

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Andy Lopata: and she said, we have to move away from trying to be the smartest person in the room, the person who knows the most being the one who learns the most.

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Andy Lopata: So that was sort of probably the spark for me. And and so I start repeating that everywhere. So that's probably part of the journey of developing new ideas. And then I had a guest. Richard Gerva, who had turned around a failing school in the Uk. Serially failing school and really turned it around.

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Andy Lopata: became a top headmaster, and has brought those lessons into the corporate world and talking to Richard. We started talking about this topic, and we talked about curiosity, authenticity, listening and vulnerability, and I realized how they were all tied together.

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Andy Lopata: So straight after that, podcast I created what I call the curiosity cycle.

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Andy Lopata: And I wrote a blog about it for psychology today. So, if you are curious in conversation, you listen actively, and I talk about Stephen Covey's active listening there. If you listen actively, you become more authentic in the way you engage with people. If you're more authentic in the way you engage in a conversation, that conversation becomes more vulnerable, and if the conversation is more vulnerable. You both become more curious. You start the cycle again, and that cycle leads to deeper trust and greater engagement.

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Andy Lopata: So now that's part of my training. So that's a good example of how a model will develop for me.

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Andy Lopata: So it's it's not necessarily me sitting down and going. I need a new model.

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Andy Lopata: But it's the conversations I have, the deadlines. I set, the the the ideas that I have to produce in written or or audio form, or whatever it might be the the talks that I give that constantly feed ideas. I I have something when I deliver deliver presentations as a QR. Code

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Andy Lopata: on each slide. And if people scan the QR code they go to a. A. A. Free, free text poll, where they can submit a question, and then what I will do is I'll answer those questions in the video for everyone who is at the presentation a week later.

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Andy Lopata: So it helps embed the learning and keep it fresh.

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Andy Lopata: I had one of those this week, and it was a really interesting question around.

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Andy Lopata: is it easier to build a relationship with someone who's

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Andy Lopata: from the same background as you, and does, what does that mean for building relationships with people?

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Andy Lopata: With a different background. And I started answering it. But my immediate thought was, Well, this is a blog for psychology today, because I can interview someone about this, and I can go more deeply into it. I can answer it to a degree. But who's an expert in this? So then, I'm deepening my knowledge. So those types of things that you need to be doing all the time.

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Andy Lopata: There's 1 thing I'll add to that, and that is, I have, I think, the most robust

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Andy Lopata: content I've ever had, which you would hope, you know, every year you want it to be more and more robust. But in 2,019 I repositioned from networking to professional relationships.

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Andy Lopata: and shortly afterwards I was delivering a 1 day workshop for Glaxosmith climb.

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Andy Lopata: and I didn't sleep well the night before, not because I was nervous about the workshop. I think I wasn't looking forward to sitting on the M. 25 motorway around London

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Andy Lopata: in the rush hour the next day, because it's not a nice journey to be there for 9 o'clock or 8 30.

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Andy Lopata: But I woke up

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Andy Lopata: with us if I select at all, and 3 occasions had to get out of bed and write a new model on a post-it note. I just lay there, and these ideas popped into my head fully formed. They are still pretty much what I share today.

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Andy Lopata: And they form the basis of the work that I do. That one night I got 3 ideas that turned into models that form the base of the work that I do now, and that was just my subconscious doing the work. So when you talk about day to day all these conversations you have all this development of ideas that you do is feeding your subconscious. And then, when you're you don't want to be thinking about it. It creates a space, and it pops in.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So much, so many things to pick up on Tracy actually just messaged me, which is like super clear distillation, she said. I love the provocation that to be a thought leader you need to 1st be a thought listener and learner.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So.

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Andy Lopata: No new idea. I should block that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah, yeah, totally. And the other thing like, I'm sitting there applying, I'm like, Oh, all of those moments, there's some. There's an invitation there, too, to set yourself up for the stretch opportunity, or like the public speaking opportunity, or like having some of those forcing functions in your life that actually makes your brain start to instead of getting out. We talk about like being in the river of the normal work for standing on the banks and like having the perspective

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: and so I'm gonna have to challenge myself with, yeah, I need to get some of those things to force some of that dot connecting thinking

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: you mentioned as you were sharing that something that's like powerful, true, and yet challenging, which is how much easier it is for us to develop relationships with people like us.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And that's so true for catalysts, because they move at our speed. I was so tired yesterday. I'll share this personal story. I was so tired yesterday, and my very last call was with a new woman that I didn't know, and I was almost like, do I cancel the meeting, and she's a ultra catalyst, and I was buzzing by the end of the meeting. It was like a recharge like the paddles have been put on right. That's what it feels like for catalyst to talk. But we have to live in the real world where

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: we're surrounded by not catalysts. And so I'm wondering as like a relation, a catalyst and a relationship expert, how we bridge that divide to show up in the ways that you're talking about with people who might not think like us.

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Andy Lopata: It's it's a great question. And it goes back to one of the early things that I said about my early career

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Andy Lopata: where I you know you you use the term catalyst. I probably more frequently use the term about myself as an opinionated sod.

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Andy Lopata: Where I I'm not. I'm not the player of politics. And certainly when I worked for

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Andy Lopata: big big organizations in my twenties, I wasn't good at the political game where I work with people now who are in that position. It's about developing the relationships with the right people.

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Andy Lopata: And the the mistake that I made was the I wasn't thinking about how the other person's perspective. I wasn't thinking about how that was landing, or how they process that information, or whether they would support me, why, how they buy into it, how it would impact them any of those things! I was just like we should do this.

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Andy Lopata: So you talk about the energy and the buzz of talking to a catalyst, and and that

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Andy Lopata: resonate strongly with me. I get the same. I'm exhausted, but then I get into that conversation, and I forget how I feel. I've been stressed at work today, but then I get into a conversation, and I'm energized again, but not everyone is like that with you.

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Andy Lopata: But if you've developed the relationship where they trust you and respect you, and want to hear what you have to say, if you enter into conversations from that curiosity mindset rather than

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Andy Lopata: you know, the classic phrase I've used for years is engaged, not broadcast.

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Andy Lopata: And what what an enthusiastic young catalyst!

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Andy Lopata: And I never would have used that phrase for myself. But

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Andy Lopata: if the cap fits, I I guess that is the mindset that I would have brought to things.

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Andy Lopata: yeah, that young person back. Then I wasn't trying to understand why things were, how they were. I was just arguing that they shouldn't be.

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Andy Lopata: and I would just end up in arguments with my colleagues, because I hadn't taken the time

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Andy Lopata: to try and work out why they were

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Andy Lopata: to. You know what led to the situation over many years that people had been working with and comfortable with.

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Andy Lopata: you know the arrogance of assuming that, hey? I've got my fresh pair of eyes. And I'm seeing this differently. And and you know, in a in the public sector.

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Andy Lopata: where you know, these conversations have probably happened multiple times before I've even been born.

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Andy Lopata: So that curiosity mindset is really key. You, you, of course.

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Andy Lopata: can also get into personality types and recognizing personality types. So not coming in full throttle. If you're in conversation with an introvert as a simple example, recognizing when people need space to reflect and not just jump into the conversation

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Andy Lopata: giving people that space, giving people that respect. And I don't think I was able to do that at that time in my career

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Andy Lopata: I would hug.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: How do you do that now? Because because the like, the way of being a catalyst is like, it's our natural default, position and everything that you're saying is true. But there's like we have to develop this capacity to to do that thing that you're talking about. How did you learn to do that?

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Andy Lopata: It's not for me to say that I know that I do it now. I

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Andy Lopata: and and that's I was gonna come on to that, because the answer is, I'm not sure where it comes up for me in the same way.

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Andy Lopata: because so I

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Andy Lopata: I I went into business with my father. This particular business we co-founded together in 2,007, my father sadly no longer with us. But we. We used to

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Andy Lopata: clash heads, particularly in the early days. Very different personality types. Again, he'd been in business naturally for a lot longer than I had.

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Andy Lopata: And I came in with all my ideas and so forth, and didn't respect his experience. Now, over a period of time, he

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Andy Lopata: came to respect more and more the opinions I brought to the table.

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Andy Lopata: But that took a while. I had to earn it. But

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Andy Lopata: since he he was always in the business until the last days, but but less and less so. And my mother is still working with me, and I have other people around us in the business, but it's more my show now to a degree in terms of direction where we go.

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Andy Lopata: So I'm not in that position of having to persuade persuade people in the same way I would still have conversations, but I'm in the driving seat now, so it doesn't show up for me in the same way.

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Andy Lopata: The reason I'm not sure how much I've learned is when I have been in a board

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Andy Lopata: position on professional associations, some of the still challenges still come out

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Andy Lopata: because I don't stop to think when I'm in that space.

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Andy Lopata: and I just come through with my enthusiasm for the new idea. And I found myself

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Andy Lopata: on a very small C conservative board. So

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Andy Lopata: being British, we always say small c conservative, because you've got large C conservative in, in, in in government as well.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: For the clarification of the audience. Totally. Thank you.

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Andy Lopata: but but you know people who were risk averse.

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Andy Lopata: you know, comfortable in the status quo, and I would always challenge that, and I'm not sure that I did navigate it the way I would want to.

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Andy Lopata: So even now I'm not sure that I am brilliant at that.

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Andy Lopata: and it's bit of the cobbler's shoes. Does that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yes.

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Andy Lopata: Like, for.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Totally, huh!

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Andy Lopata: Yeah, So

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Andy Lopata: when you're in the moment, and you're enthusiastic, and you feel passionately about something. It's very hard to to take your own medicine in my case, and to sit back and say, Am I curious? Am I listening? Am I seeking to understand?

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Andy Lopata: And I would look at how I was the last time I was on that board, the one I've got in mind, and say, maybe I could have handled things a different way.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thank you for the super authentic, truthful answer, because I think it's like, we can sit here and wax, philosophical on podcasts. But the reality is, it's hard, I mean, that's it. And we're imperfect and having self compassion, you did bring up a nuance, though, that I want to follow up on, which is when you're the decider, when you're sitting in the captain's chair when you're like, I don't have to bring those people along yet. But yeah. And yet we know particularly catalyst leaders in large organizations.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: even if we can set the direction, if we're not doing all the things, the curiosity, the authenticity, the listening and the vulnerability. We're going to leave our team behind.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And so I'm just wondering if you have for the catalyst execs who is mostly our audience. If you have advice for that relationship building, bringing your team along your org along.

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Andy Lopata: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm coming back into that position now, because we're we're in the process of launching a new business where I've already got the team in place, so it isn't just me and it's not just me now in the main business, but but there is more of

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Andy Lopata: There are more opinions around the table. Let's put it that way. That hasn't come up as a challenge yet, but it's a good reminder to me to refocus on that

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Andy Lopata: I I have a talk called vulnerable leadership.

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Andy Lopata: and one of the key phrases I use in that talk, and in fact, it's the one I close on

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Andy Lopata: is the we have to know when we lead, not from above, but from among.

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Andy Lopata: And we have this cultural perspective or image of leadership as being the person with all the answers.

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Andy Lopata: pointing the way and saying, This is what we'll do. Whereas for me, a great leader isn't someone who knows all the answers, but surrounds themselves with people who can provide them, and curates them, and decides as the ultimate decider on the way forward. So my advice to to catalyst execs is

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Andy Lopata: you, particularly if you are a catalyst exec and you are a change maker, a thought leader in this space or in your space is, you may be innovative. You may be creative with your ideas. You may have cutting edge ideas that doesn't make you the only one.

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Andy Lopata: So are you surrounding yourselves with people who can challenge those ideas?

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Andy Lopata: Are you surrounding yourselves with people who can test those ideas? Because if you surround yourselves with, yes, men and women.

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Andy Lopata: Then you could be setting yourself up for a fall. So find people like you.

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Andy Lopata: but also find people who might not necessarily be innovators, but are brilliant processors, analysts.

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Andy Lopata: and use them. Give them space, and have the humility which at times in my career I will have lacked without a doubt.

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Andy Lopata: have the humility

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Andy Lopata: to say, I think this is a great idea, but I don't know it is help me decide and be open

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Andy Lopata: to allow other people to adapt it, or even dismiss it.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: You. You just left me with a really great self reflection question that I need to practice, which is, when is the last? When is the last time someone challenged me.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: or challenge one of my ideas? Because if the answer is, I don't remember, then I'm probably not being open in the way that you're talking about. So I think. Thank you for that.

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Andy Lopata: And I would add to that, you know, or my my question for you, I guess, and it can be rhetorical if you want for for people in a similar space is, do you have a mentor?

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Andy Lopata: Do you have a mastermind group? A group of peers that will challenge you. So if you. If the answer is.

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Andy Lopata: I cannot remember the last time someone challenged me on my ideas, or even it's not happening regularly.

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Andy Lopata: It's probably because you haven't got

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Andy Lopata: a formalized system for accountability, reflection, and feedback.

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Andy Lopata: Whether that's a mentor, whether that's a mastermind group.

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Andy Lopata: whatever it might be, create that environment, a coach is another example. Someone who can do that create that space for people to push back.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I love that you are. You're a master at models.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: I love how everything you say ends up synthesizing into a psychology today. Article model.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Okay, so catalyst audience, you've walked the walk as a catalyst yourself.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: If I forced you into a corner to boil it down. What are like our 3 biggest communication mistakes, Andy.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And what? How do we avoid them?

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Andy Lopata: Well, the 1st one I've mentioned, and that would be we broadcast rather than engage

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Andy Lopata: so the way you avoid that is, ask questions. Be curious.

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Andy Lopata: Don't present the fait accompli, but throw it out there. Here's an idea. What do you think.

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Andy Lopata: or even before you bring your idea to the table, share the problem and say, How would you approach this in engage people in the conversation?

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Andy Lopata: And I think that that pro that's probably the 1st challenge in this sense by a country mile

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Andy Lopata: the second, and it's related to that

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Andy Lopata: is. And again, I'm thinking of myself and my history on this

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Andy Lopata: is the ability to shut up and listen.

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Andy Lopata: So you know, as soon as I I'm a fixer by nature, I think these things go hand in hand.

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Andy Lopata: So if you tell me you've you've you're struggling with something at work. I'm how can I help you? What you know? What can I do?

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Andy Lopata: Not. Everyone wants that.

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Andy Lopata: And sometimes, as soon as a challenge is mentioned.

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Andy Lopata: the temptation is there to come in with a solution.

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Andy Lopata: You can't have fully formed it and you but the but the key point here is that people might not look, be looking for a solution at that point. Now move this into personal life

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Andy Lopata: your partner or a close friend tells you that they're struggling at work.

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Andy Lopata: or they've had a really rotten day. I've had it on Whatsapp over the last 24 h with a good friend of mine. I was supposed to be out with tomorrow night.

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Andy Lopata: and she's having a an awful time to the point. She's taking a sick day today because she can't cope with what's going on.

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Andy Lopata: I haven't asked her what's going on there. She actually can't tell me because it it's confidential way, because the nature of where she's working.

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Andy Lopata: but that's not what she she'll be looking for.

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Andy Lopata: I just promised her a hug when I see her next week.

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Andy Lopata: and sometimes people just want that. They just want to tell you they're having a bad time. They don't want you to do anything about it, and they don't expect you to. If you're a fixer, and I'm thinking a lot of catalysts will be fixers. That's anathema to us. We don't understand that, so I think the second is to shut up and listen

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Andy Lopata: and try to just be there and just try to understand

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Andy Lopata: before jumping into to that fixing and slot

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Andy Lopata: and then I'm thinking a little bit on my feet here. So the 3rd one so we have broadcast. Don't engage engage, don't broadcast or mistake is we broadcast? Don't engage, shut up and listen.

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Andy Lopata: And then, yeah, I think the 3, rd in terms of communication

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Andy Lopata: is to create the space. So these are all tied to each other very closely. But I touched on something really important.

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Andy Lopata: and that is the power of introverts and the untapped power of introverts. And I think that if you're a catalyst executive

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Andy Lopata: and you, you are forceful when you have ideas.

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Andy Lopata: the chances are, unless you're conscious about it.

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Andy Lopata: You are not allowing the space

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Andy Lopata: for the quieter people on your team to contribute to the process, and

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Andy Lopata: not if, say you have a meeting to to find a resolution to a challenge

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Andy Lopata: or next step forward. You're you're hoping to come away with your answers in that meeting at a meeting this morning

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Andy Lopata: about moving a project forward. I was hoping to come out with responses. I could see very early that we weren't.

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Andy Lopata: and what I suggested at the end was that we create the potential solution as a document.

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Andy Lopata: put it into a project planning system for people to contribute over a 6 to 8 week period.

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Andy Lopata: Then we move forward. What that does is it enables everyone to contribute whether they are a fixer who immediately comes up with ideas, or whether they're a reflector

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Andy Lopata: who needs to go away, sit on it, play with it, and then come up with their thoughts and trying to solve everything. In a 1 h. Teams meeting was a a fool's errand.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: You've I I

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I'm gonna tag this podcast as something that I need to listen to over and over again.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: it's such a good reminder. And it's like, actually, Andy, you're making me do the reflection that we were talking about earlier. So there's something also, just super Meta, about this conversation. So thank you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: All right, as we move to wrap up. I'm super curious about your answer to this. Who's your favorite famous or favorite inspirational catalyst, past or present, and why?

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Andy Lopata: You know, I always struggle with this type of question.

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Andy Lopata: I'm not one for

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Andy Lopata: for for idol worship or role models. Which is ironic, because I think role models play play a key part in our success.

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Andy Lopata: But I don't necessarily pick people out. So I have authors that I like, and and there are stories that resonate with me. But I always struggle to name someone. If I was to give the cliched answer, and Steve Jobs is a great example of an innovator, a catalyst.

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Andy Lopata: And and the reason I would probably mention Steve Jobs is that he was focused on the impact on the end user.

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Andy Lopata: which is one of the most important things we need to do.

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Andy Lopata: And he's famous for really focusing on the user experience. But I can't say, I mean, I've I've read biographies, Steve Jobs, but I can't say I'm a fanboy in the sense that I could tell you everything he did. It's not my way of operating. And actually, some of the people that

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Andy Lopata: influence me are just the people that I deal with day to day, whether they're my clients. They're people on my training courses, and they might just say something that really resonates with me. Fellow speakers and trainers and authors have a big influence on me as well. You know we've mentioned Ruth Gotier, and since I've met Ruth she's a constant source of inspiration as well. But there's no one that I always struggle. However, this question is formed.

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Andy Lopata: I always struggle with it because I do not have you know, when I when I was a kid. I had Kim Wild and Toya and Susie Sue on my wall, and Annie Lennox. I don't have the same in business. I don't have those posters up on my wall in business. so I will struggle with that. But hopefully that gives so and it is. It's it's sometimes it's it's the individual conversation and the the person out of the spotlight, and they make the difference to me.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: That doesn't surprise me. Given the work that you do and everything that you said, it's like the being present with who's in front of you and what the inspiration is at each touch point. So thank you so much. You have been insanely inspirational to me today, as you can tell. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and all of your models with our audience.

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Andy Lopata: It's been an absolute pleasure. It's such an interesting angle for me. And I love doing podcast. Interviews where it's not the same questions. And it gets me to think in a different way. And so thank you for that.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Absolutely and to our listening audience. Thanks so much for joining us. If you'd like to learn more about how to create bold, powerful change in the world. Be sure to check out our book, move fast, break, shit, burnout, or go to our website at catalystconstellations.com.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: And because, we know you loved this podcast. Like we did, Shannon and I both reeling with ways. We need to go get better in our relationship management and finding our mentors take a few seconds to rate it on itunes. Spotify stitcher wherever you're listening, and please share this very important conversation with all the other catalysts in your life.

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Tracey Lovejoy - Catalyst Constellations: Andy. Thank you again.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Thanks! Again.

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Andy Lopata: Pleasure.