Alexis Olans, former Chief Sustainability Officer at Arcadis - Navigating Change with Alexis Haass: The Role of Allies, Storytelling, and Strategic Vision

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Hi! I'm Shannon, Lucas.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): And I'm Tracy Lovejoy. We're the co-ceos of catalyst constellations which is dedicated to empowering catalyst to create bold, powerful change in the world.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: This is our podcast move, fast, break, shit burnout where we speak with catalyst executives about ways to successfully lead transformation in large organizations. And today we're very excited to have time with Alexis Owens Haas. Thanks for being with us, Alexis.

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Alexis Haass: It's lovely to be here. Thank you.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: All right. I'm going to give a little bit about your bio, and then, of course, we want to hear from you. So Alexis is an international senior executive with 20 years of experience dedicated to business and climate issues focused on developing strategy, innovation, sustainable products and services for business growth and business development.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: starting first, st leading Adidas's brand sustainability program as director of business strategy and business development. And most recently, as the former Chief sustainability officer at Arcadis, a global design engineering and infrastructure firm. Also, amazingly, Alexis is the member of the EU Women's Climate Leadership network at the European Investment Bank.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: All right, Alexis. I can't wait to hear more about your story, so tell us about your catalytic journey and sharing maybe a few career highlights that you're proud of that help us. See your catalytic nature.

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Alexis Haass: Sure. Well, thank you for the lovely intro and I think I might have been born into a family that was preparing me to be a catalyst. So I come from a medical family, both parents and doctors. So there was sort of always a a expectation or inbuilt. You know, prerequisite that your 9 to 5 makes the world a better place.

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Alexis Haass: That being said, therefore, following you know college, I decided to go into international development.

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Alexis Haass: I thought that, you know, by working in 1st in DC. And then on the ground, and actually rural northern Nicaragua, I could find out where the best place would be to actually really leverage change.

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Alexis Haass: And when I was in Nicaragua I noticed that actually the region I was trying to help with health programs and environment programs.

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Alexis Haass: They had actually lost their tree cover, dropped their water table. Topsoil had gone away and they were dependent on the World Food program. I was there because of that.

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Alexis Haass: But this was all a decision that actually was made totally legal, with consent of everybody there to clear cut

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Alexis Haass: the area, and that was one of the large international timber companies that had come through then. And so it just seemed more logical that actually the place you could make more change was in the room with corporate strategy.

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Alexis Haass: So I thought I'd go back and get my master's science and Mba. At Michigan. They had a joint degree program where you could look at both the science and the business

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Alexis Haass: and start working on sustainability topics.

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Alexis Haass: That being said, I don't know if people remember back in 2,005. Sustainability wasn't cool. It was still a bit crunchly.

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Alexis Haass: So you know, this is before renewables were cheap. This was before actually the Tesla roadster even existed. So the concept that sustainability equal just better in every way

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Alexis Haass: better for business.

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Alexis Haass: That was a really tough case to make.

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Alexis Haass: And so I was interested in actually

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Alexis Haass: a little bit after business school. Adidas asked me to come, help them get ready for the London games, London, Olympic games, and that was going to be the 1st sustainable games.

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Alexis Haass: And so, therefore, I thought what a great opportunity to actually make

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Alexis Haass: sustainability, equal innovation, and desirability.

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Alexis Haass: And so that was the impetus for me. Moving to Germany, working at Aridas. Their headquarters is is here and

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Alexis Haass: It started a 12 year journey of basically working on sustainable product, innovation strategy go to market all of these topics.

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Alexis Haass: And I loved doing this work. It was really fun leading the brand program for sustainability. But I think, after maybe 2,019,

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Alexis Haass: I started to really feel that you tapped out in terms of how much you could achieve in decarbonization just through the consumer demand signals alone.

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Alexis Haass: We needed to do more in the baseline infrastructure, energy, transition, industrial decarbonisation.

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Alexis Haass: And you know, if you're not vertically integrated.

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Alexis Haass: you don't have power over those decisions.

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Alexis Haass: So 2020 came around. I decided to go on maternity leave, have second child. I was very excited to have some time to spend with that child, and then Covid came, so we were all locked inside.

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Alexis Haass: That being said, the build back better sort of drumbeat started to pick up.

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Alexis Haass: and as I was inside, you know, all the time I was having more and more conversations with folks who are working on these topics. Infrastructure topics around. Build back better.

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Alexis Haass: At the time Arcadis reached out they wanted to have their 1st

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Alexis Haass: chief sustainability officer and

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Alexis Haass: were interested if I would come along. Now, Arcadis is design and engineering firm. That's infrastructure. So it works on things like energy and nature, restoration and industrial and commercial real estate and mobility topics, and this just seemed awesome.

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Alexis Haass: you know. That was exactly where I wanted to go.

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Alexis Haass: So I came on and started working with arcades.

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Alexis Haass: We developed sustainable solutions that each of the business areas could bring and evolve proactively to their clients. We worked on topics on how to decarbonize our ourselves, and then how to teach our clients how to do it for themselves. Through our learning.

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Alexis Haass: We also started figuring out how to communicate about this and how to teach our own people who are very deep subject matter experts

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Alexis Haass: also how to communicate in a more broad sense about sustainability.

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Alexis Haass: So yeah, maybe to bring us up to the present. So as I was doing this, it was. It was a total treat to through your day job, get to learn all about these different sectors and energy and and buildings, and and so forth.

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Alexis Haass: And therefore I got very interested in the sort of climate tech solutions

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Alexis Haass: that are emerging that are just now really in the money

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Alexis Haass: things like industrial heat batteries that can supplant a natural gas boiler or new solutions that you can actually use to change your energy management through AI and software. These things are very new.

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Alexis Haass: And I just actually am really interested in thinking, how do we get these to scale? Be it through? Vc, be it through helping them through growth. And that's sort of the focus of my topic right now

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Alexis Haass: cool.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Amazing journey. Amazing journey. Thank you for sharing. We have so many more questions. But 1st I would love to start with. What's your definition of being a catalyst, and maybe how has that supported you? Being in your executive roles?

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Alexis Haass: I love that you guys chose that word it.

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Alexis Haass: Maybe it is due to where I work or come from, but I've always had this sort of positive connotation with the word catalyst.

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Alexis Haass: So it it sort of symbolizes to me how you can make impact

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Alexis Haass: and impact at at big scale, like catalyzed, is just a very active

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Alexis Haass: word, active verb, and I think,

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Alexis Haass: that winds up, meaning to me that these are very action oriented people.

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Alexis Haass: Also, I mean, when you catalyze something, you provoke a big reaction and use it. Usually it's a systemic one.

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Alexis Haass: and I think a lot of catalysts think systemically. It is something where it's beneficial to be strategic in that sense.

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Alexis Haass: I think

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Alexis Haass: probably the key point for me in the word catalyst is

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Alexis Haass: I was talking about

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Alexis Haass: that big picture change. Usually those are the kind of people who are seeking the change point.

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Alexis Haass: Where is it that I can go in to provoke the biggest or the needed. You know, metamorphosis.

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Alexis Haass: That usually means that's the fulcrum. That's the lever, you know. You're always trying to find, where can you do it? To to move the most?

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Alexis Haass: And so the good thing about that is that you often think systems youth.

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Alexis Haass: you know you're moved

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Alexis Haass: to action, a bias for action. You're very strategic, but

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Alexis Haass: there can be a bad side to that as well, which is, maybe you take too big of a bite, you know, and you have to really chew through that with the organization.

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Alexis Haass: And it's stressful or an impatience, you know it is can be really frustrating, especially if you're a catalyst who's motivated by a sense of urgency.

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Alexis Haass: For me, it's climate. It can be for other people in healthcare it can be whatever. But the impatience

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Alexis Haass: is not helpful.

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Alexis Haass: but you know it's hard to get rid of

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Alexis Haass: and I think maybe the last thing to just

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Alexis Haass: wrap on this is.

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Alexis Haass: it often means forging your own path. I mean even the word itself, you know, catalyzed. It probably means creating something that didn't exist there before.

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Alexis Haass: And so that comes with all the blessings of being able to maybe be the 1st to do something

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Alexis Haass: or write your own job description, or whatever it is.

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Alexis Haass: and also sort of the drawbacks, which is nobody's ever done it before. So then they haven't blazed the path in in doing exactly what you're doing, and so

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Alexis Haass: you deal with the friction.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): It. It's such a beautiful synthesis of why you love the word, what it means to you, and the challenges that you faced as an individual catalyst and bridging in that. Given the executive roles you've played, I'd love to understand what are the biggest challenges you've faced as a catalyst executive right? And I'm guessing some of the 3 that you mentioned play into this. I'm I'm very curious.

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Alexis Haass: Let me think. Maybe I could give

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Alexis Haass: 2 2 different ones the different kinds of challenges that I think sometimes people have.

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Alexis Haass: One was from Adidas and back. Then we were.

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Alexis Haass: It was about like not making progress on a strategic initiative.

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Alexis Haass: and that I think a lot of people struggle with that. You know how you're in the stuck place. So how do you get out of it?

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Alexis Haass: For us at Adidas? At the time it was an adoption of 100% recycled polyester. So that is by far the biggest material that Adidas uses in everything. It's often the most used sports material. There is

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Alexis Haass: and at the time it was also at quite a price, premium and there was a great deal of difficulty, and even trying to engineer. Maybe some fabrics have the same quality or the same, you know,

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Alexis Haass: look and feel as what it would be. So it was really a tough thing. You couldn't just easily make a swap in, swap out kind of argument. You had to sort of rethink products, rethink supply chains and

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Alexis Haass: we were making progress. Sort of bit by bit. There were some really great allies across the company, everybody really pulling hard on this.

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Alexis Haass: I think the thing that really changed it, or what helped overcome that just very incremental progress to make a full commitment to 100%, and then just really deliver against it

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Alexis Haass: 1st was having good allies and good relations.

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Alexis Haass: So back, then our president of brands, Eric Litkey.

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Alexis Haass: was a dedicated surfer. He was very motivated personally by the topic.

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Alexis Haass: I remember actually, when he right, as he was coming onto the board to be President Brands. He had previously been head of the Ads brand, and before that head of

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Alexis Haass: marketing overall, and it sort of worked with them a bit through through the years.

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Alexis Haass: And I had kind of been in his ear all the time, saying, This is really important. We really have to do this. And I remember writing him an email the night that

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Alexis Haass: he was announced.

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Alexis Haass: I said, congratulations, Eric.

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Alexis Haass: look forward to seeing what you do.

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Alexis Haass: and he wrote me one line back, and it was, hold on to your hat.

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Alexis Haass: And that was just like, Yay, okay, we got somebody who really believes in it in a place that they can really give you some.

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Alexis Haass: You know, some wins to actually move it along, because everybody knew this was key to how Eric saw the brand.

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Alexis Haass: And then the second thing is

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Alexis Haass: through that in Adias wound up, creating this great symbol

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Alexis Haass: and this ability to tell the vision and the story of

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Alexis Haass: why?

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Alexis Haass: Why are we doing this really big change, especially when it's difficult, and maybe it's more expensive. And

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Alexis Haass: and that was by creating some pinnacle product.

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Alexis Haass: It was a collaboration with Hardly for the oceans. But it was a ocean plastic shoe

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Alexis Haass: that meant taking plastic off the beaches

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Alexis Haass: in remote islands in the Pacific.

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Alexis Haass: and then actually that, and fish nets and everything to create this new shoot that was. Then they went and held up

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Alexis Haass: and remember them.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: It was so cool, too, just mind blowing.

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Alexis Haass: And the thing was recycled. Polyester is hard to get people excited about, you know you can tell bottles.

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Alexis Haass: but everybody likes bottles. It's trash.

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Alexis Haass: But then, if you're cleaning up beaches in the Pacific all of a sudden, it feels like a mission.

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Alexis Haass: and I think that's really important when you're working on things is people need to feel

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Alexis Haass: the mission of what it is. Why, it's important how they get to play a part in it. And that was really again a catalyzing thing that helped pull back.

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Alexis Haass: Help! Pull that along.

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Alexis Haass: So those were the 2 things that moved that example. I give one other example, if it's helpful from from arcades.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Also about not making progress? Or is it a different challenge.

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Alexis Haass: No, it's a different challenge.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Okay.

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Alexis Haass: I think you guys had written me before about, is it a steering transformation without disruption to the business.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Right.

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Alexis Haass: The challenge that sometimes people have. I appreciate, by the way, you suiting me with a couple of ideas that helps.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Absolutely want to set you up for success.

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Alexis Haass: This one was it involved our our key account program. So Arcadius, like, I say, is, is a design and engineering company work with clients from

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Alexis Haass: 50% private, 50% public all across the globe. And then of these really major large clients, we had a key account program to actually really catalyze more action with those those really large clients. And when I 1st came on with the the CEO, Peter Osovier

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Alexis Haass: was also very personally committed to this topic, and it was centered it in their strategy. That was why they wanted a Chief Sustainability officer to help figure it out

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Alexis Haass: and

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Alexis Haass: He and I put together an investor day during the 1st year there, and he just

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Alexis Haass: right up on stage, said, and I did not. We talked about it. I didn't know he was going to say it on the camera. They said, well, we expect to only work with clients who have committed to the goals of Paris.

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Alexis Haass: It was like.

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Alexis Haass: great. Okay, we're now doing that

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Alexis Haass: which was amazing.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Wow!

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Alexis Haass: Which also meant that

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Alexis Haass: there were people who hadn't yet figured out plans, who, or either hadn't verbally said they were going to commit to the goals of Paris, or hadn't figured out plans on how to do so.

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Alexis Haass: And so we have to figure out, okay, how are you going to measure that that statement?

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Alexis Haass: And then also, how are you going to make it a positive thing for the business?

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Alexis Haass: This is not to like, you know, kick anybody out. It is not actually, it is an opportunity to say our our mission was to help people figure out

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Alexis Haass: how to get there

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Alexis Haass: and how to get there faster, because we kind of knew through our client conversations that was already the goal for many.

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Alexis Haass: And so in figuring out that program.

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Alexis Haass: One of the things that we had to do was develop a system to figure out what it meant to move up the ladder in terms of commitment and maturity, and how to do this. So it was developing an entire methodology around this, and I learned some really valuable lessons.

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Alexis Haass: One is that

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Alexis Haass: you should lead with how this is going to be helpful to the business. This is helpful to the business.

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Alexis Haass: of course, you know. Sometimes I guess as a catalyst. I've heard this from others I've spoken to. You can get so in love with the challenge of the problem, you go straight into the detail as opposed to 1st making it clear that something that might be

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Alexis Haass: yeah. A given to you is not necessarily on the page for other people.

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Alexis Haass: And so, for example, developing this system, a lot of people were, you know, we're worrying about what's this stage versus that stage? And why is it important for this one to go up to that one as opposed to saying, Wow! Do you know, having this, we're going to have more information than we ever have about our clients, goals

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Alexis Haass: about their needs, you know about where we could derive better insights on where they might be getting stuck.

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Alexis Haass: We could start also seeing who we could pair up

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Alexis Haass: to, who are on similar challenges, so that they could learn from each other. And this is something that we had done ad hoc before, but then we could actually start to do it

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Alexis Haass: systematically. But somebody taught me, and I appreciated that was that

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Alexis Haass: I had not led

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Alexis Haass: in the beginning with, this is useful to the business. This is not only useful. This is a whole bunch of new business coming our way.

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Alexis Haass: and actually wound up, working with the leader of the program at the time, and also some of the sector leaders who were telling us, hey, we just went to go talk to our clients about this. Some were very nervous about going to talk to clients about this.

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Alexis Haass: and they just found that this

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Alexis Haass: a whole bunch of business came back, or even just if it wasn't business, it was

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Alexis Haass: business development, because now people wanted to talk at a level or on a more broad time horizon than they ever had before. So I

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Alexis Haass: I guess probably one of the things that if I had to give some advice to

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Alexis Haass: catalyst

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Alexis Haass: it would definitely be. Make sure. Not only you're speaking the language, but you're also being able to think through their eyes first, st of what you need to see on the page first, st what's your problem? So that 1 1, st

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Alexis Haass: and then, of course, pack in all the stuff behind. But don't make that bullet. Don't make that the headline.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: What you've just articulated almost to every single data point is, the insights that it takes to be a successful catalyst executive, and I love your intentionality, and how you've combined the the differences in your experience that led you up to that to have this really well formed sort of process or approach to bringing people along.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: When we think about most catalysts. And you were saying this earlier, it's like we can be too impatient. We can be too excited about the impact that we're gonna have. You know, when I was talking with you earlier about when we started the innovation program at Vodafone. We didn't have this word catalyst, so we were looking for like the positive troublemakers or the positive disruptors.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: But we often get given those the half of that moniker as the troublemaker or the disruptor, because, like, if you're not aware that your process is different, and all of the things that you have over years probably distilled down. We actually can cause noise in the system and sort of repel people away.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: I would argue, and particularly on the point of sustainability. We need more catalytic leaders sitting at the level that you were in these massive organizations to drive change. But whether it's a sustainability catalyst or not. I'm wondering if you have advice for people to how to leverage their catalyticness, or maybe even adjust their catalyticness, to make it to have a C-suite role. Sitting at the table.

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Alexis Haass: that's really good question. I would say a couple of things. Well, first, st you know, just reiterating the last in the last story you must be able to speak the language of where you're at, and that doesn't mean you need to be so. For example, I was not an expert in infrastructure when I came into Arcadis, and that was not actually the language I needed to speak the language I needed to speak, and actually some of the value that I brought was I came from client side.

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Alexis Haass: We needed to think client side, and why this would be beneficial to clients. So you have to use that language first, st and you also need to think of your partners there who may be excited about this change may not

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Alexis Haass: or may have

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Alexis Haass: more or less information about this, what needs to be done?

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Alexis Haass: And you also need to.

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Alexis Haass: Often my team would tell me you need to take what's in your head and say it out loud.

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Alexis Haass: You know you need to actually articulate a lot of this and and make sure that you're leading the headline that you're leading with is how helpful this will be for you.

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Alexis Haass: How really I'm doing this just to make sure. Because you are. I mean it's not. It's not mine to say that that is actually.

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Alexis Haass: I want sustainable solutions that are just better period.

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Alexis Haass: Now, I'm not going to advocate for one that hugs trees and kiss bunnies, but doesn't do anything for business.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Alexis Haass: What would be. Maybe the 1st one

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Alexis Haass: second one is probably.

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Alexis Haass: especially as you're moving through an organization. You really need to be very proactive about getting mentors and

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Alexis Haass: some of those mentors will turn into advocates. Sometimes you will just separately wind up with, you know, some advocates or allies along the way. But you need those mentors because you need to do a lot of constant introspection.

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Alexis Haass: Because if you actually want to produce a result, you need to figure out what you did wrong if you didn't produce it yet.

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Alexis Haass: And then that also kind of means. You need to be willing to

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Alexis Haass: fall on your face

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Alexis Haass: and have something embarrassing happen.

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Alexis Haass: and then get up.

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Alexis Haass: go ask somebody what you did wrong, and then

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Alexis Haass: get back on the horse and go try and just pack that in to to use for growth.

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Alexis Haass: So you can't be afraid of failure, and you need to be ready for a lot of growth.

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Alexis Haass: It would be good to calculate to incorporate some introspection.

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Alexis Haass: I think also it.

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Alexis Haass: This may be due to my preference or or bias.

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Alexis Haass: I really think catalysts need to be good at articulating a vision at

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Alexis Haass: selling the excitement of the big.

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Alexis Haass: the big idea being able to tell stories.

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Alexis Haass: especially once you are able to tell that big idea.

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Alexis Haass: for example, you know, for for engineers and architects how basically, coming to work every day, you are going to be a hero in your day job.

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Alexis Haass: because everything we build now

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Alexis Haass: the last 30 plus years. So you're basically building 2050 now.

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Alexis Haass: So you know.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So cool.

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Alexis Haass: Be able to tell a story of that. And then you need to also be able to say.

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Alexis Haass: How is that relating to exactly the thing you're doing now, and the thing you're going to do in one month, and the thing you're going to do in 3 months and actually help people see where every one of them fits in to it. And, depending on your audience, get more granular than than you thought or get less granular. You know, you need to really be able to recalibrate

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Alexis Haass: on the fly.

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Alexis Haass: last. I just wind up with, because this is important.

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Alexis Haass: you'll often be the noise. The troublemaker. There's somebody out there. It's really much better if what you're doing you make other people win.

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Alexis Haass: you know, because

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Alexis Haass: it's uncomfortable. The change is uncomfortable, and

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Alexis Haass: you're so lucky to have people along the way who want to help

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Alexis Haass: some who don't want to help. But they did it anyway. And and then really holding up people as those people

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Alexis Haass: did something they didn't need to do, and they need to be recognized for that.

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Alexis Haass: So take a step back when when you can, and often

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Alexis Haass: try and make other people win. I would say.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Yeah.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: hey? I have to say you're like an ad for our class.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: So like all of the things like, yes, that's week one. That's week 2. That's week 4 amazing. I want to go back to the beginning because I'm just gonna recap a little bit like the where you started off with like having the hardcore business skills combined with empathy. That's not a word that you use. But you were like sensing like, what are the what is in it for other people, and how do you bring them along? I think you know, helping catalyst understand the pillar, the the foundation of having the business knowledge is really important.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: right? And that was something that I really took for granted until I started in my Mba. Was like, how was I going to make change without some of some of that knowledge? Excuse me.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: you ended on a thing that we do talk about, which is, you know, helping make other people win. And you talked about mentors. There's this interesting fine line. I'm just yeah, Tracy, just one quick question. There's this interesting fine line, because also, if people don't know that you were at the table driving some of that change, you won't get the license to operate, and that any kind of, you know, bragging or self promotion off

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: feels really uncomfortable for catalyst, because we're so interested in just getting it done and making everyone else a hero, do you have a double click on the advice for how to navigate that.

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Alexis Haass: Maybe, cause I don't know if I figured it out right. But

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Alexis Haass: I feel like it's more of a sliding scale, and especially the higher you get the more you need to almost disappear.

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Alexis Haass: And

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Alexis Haass: in early on, maybe nobody knows you exist. So you do need to sort of jump up and down and be like. I'm saying that we need to do this, you know. So it's a little bit of I'm saying, you know. But then later you get on, especially the further you you go, the more it behooves you to, for you know you for your own team. Put them out there, because then they can be

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Alexis Haass: the leaders that are already, you know, get recognized in the company, and they can carry so many more things on so much farther than you could or you know people who may not have been particularly excited or motivated about it by actually you taking yourself more out of it. Then it actually can be more appetizing to people, because they

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Alexis Haass: especially if it is something you can relate to that they have said so it's their idea.

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Alexis Haass: you know. That being said, sometimes you get that balance right, and then sometimes you get that balance wrong. So

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Alexis Haass: in either direction, either nobody noticed that you did it.

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Alexis Haass: or you took too much about me. Me and everybody was like, well, you didn't think enough about the business

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Alexis Haass: I was like, oh.

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Alexis Haass: so I think

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Alexis Haass: that thing I was saying before about mentors and meeting

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Alexis Haass: people who

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Alexis Haass: who love you, who trust you, who have seen you through the time who believe in you.

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Alexis Haass: And and these people I had over the years. I just simply walked on up to somebody who is, you know Svp of this business unit, or I knew that they led this other thing, and I just liked how they led.

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Alexis Haass: And so then I just asked them to be my mentor at times.

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Alexis Haass: and that helps, because then you get a lot of really good insights and feedback.

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Alexis Haass: But you gotta be ready to swallow it, because it means, yeah, we're human. We don't do everything right all the time.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah, getting mentors for feedback means you're gonna get a lot of feedback.

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Alexis Haass: Back.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Which requires receiving and acting on

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): hearing very hard things. Sometimes I love how you say that with just a very gentle smile.

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Alexis Haass: You know

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Alexis Haass: this, the the reason I think a lot of people do this work is not

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Alexis Haass: I guess if you wanted to make a lot of money. You'd probably have gone into investment banking, you know. You don't for that

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Alexis Haass: if you wanted to have a lot of fame, you might have gone into some other field as well, you know. So usually you're doing it because there's something that's just it's like an itch. It's a drive. If you you feel like the world's gonna come to an end. If you don't literally for me, I kind of feel like it. Might, you know, if you don't actually solve some of these problems.

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Alexis Haass: and not that you think you can solve them alone. But it's like, if you're not doing it, then you're not working on something that's worthwhile that matters.

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Alexis Haass: you know. I, we really have a window of 5 or 10 years to actually put ourselves on the right track.

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Alexis Haass: and I want to be able to look my kids in the eye and say, Try, you know I did my best.

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Alexis Haass: And just

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Alexis Haass: when you do that the good news is oftentimes you can catalyze a lot of other people.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah.

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Alexis Haass: See that they've never seen someone who just totally did it.

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Alexis Haass: Not the conventional way, not the normal way. And so it's like.

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Alexis Haass: why are there so many companies founded in Silicon Valley? Just because there's a lot of people founding companies.

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Alexis Haass: You see someone else doing it.

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Alexis Haass: So you know, you need to be a catalyst, if only for the reason that somebody else leaves you. Do it.

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Alexis Haass: I, as a chief sustainability officer, I walked into the grocery store, and I didn't always buy recycled toilet paper.

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Alexis Haass: You know what the Kid was screaming. I had to go get out of there quickly, and I would tell this story all the time to folks, because I would say

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Alexis Haass: it's hard, you know, to to make all the right decisions.

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Alexis Haass: But the most important thing is when you talk about one of the ones that maybe you did and and tried to do, or the ones that you're thinking of.

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Alexis Haass: then actually, what matters more is that other people see it and think, oh, that's normal.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah.

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Alexis Haass: And then they start to do it too.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I love that. Yeah, when I look back on my own career in, you know, kind of directing research and innovation in technology. It was really when I let go of ego, and

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): in this made made my job easier, and I got more credit for it oddly is, when I started making everyone responsible for understanding the customer. And I wasn't the conduit.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): It was actually far more impactful long term. And the fact that I did the work to bring people together and help them have the insights rather than read a report and email that they weren't going to read

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): it was, it was so much better. But it really took a long time for me, in the early days of career, to understand that continuum you're speaking to right, and I love that idea that the more senior you get, the more you have to let go of that and that's the way to empower it so beautifully said, Thank you. Thank you.

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Alexis Haass: Probably one thing that I would just. I don't know if it's different now, because I'm dating myself, but I was back in business school in like 2,004 and 5. So maybe this is totally normal now. But it wasn't.

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Alexis Haass: We weren't having explicit conversations at the time about the shift between being a manager and being a leader.

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Alexis Haass: And what happens then? You had plenty of examples of what leadership look like. You have plenty examples of what good management look like. But nobody talked about specifically the change point when you go from being to another, or when you need to inhabit

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Alexis Haass: each one, and when and how you do that like code switching.

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Alexis Haass: And I think, you know, I had to learn through through trial and error how to figure that out. Because I didn't have as many resources there that had already said, this is what it's gonna look like when this is how you do it.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Yeah.

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Alexis Haass: This is how you go, and I think that would be something particularly catalyst should be.

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Alexis Haass: especially if they're young already thinking about, because that change is going from time when you're actually trying to manage to an objective versus what it? What good leadership looks like.

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Alexis Haass: You know, inspiring still somehow manages to ensure accountability.

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Alexis Haass: But you know, at the same time, yeah.

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Alexis Haass: it lets that level of positivity and and optimism just infuse

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Alexis Haass: all the people you need to. So that actually, it happens

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Alexis Haass: kind of almost just

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Alexis Haass: without you.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Boom, says Alexis.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Catalyst. Are you about the ideas, or are you about the leadership?

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Alexis's

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): leading us to the leadership? And I love it. It's such a beautiful synthesis. Alright as we wrap up today, Alexis, we'd love we. Our favorite question is the fun one

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): we'd love to hear about your favorite catalyst, past or present, who inspires you.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): and why they stand out for you.

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Alexis Haass: Is it too trite

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Alexis Haass: for me to say, Obama.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): No, no.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: Oh!

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Alexis Haass: You know, it's actually true. And there's there's several more I can think of in different sectors where where they literally Obama is such a a iconic one

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Alexis Haass: where

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Alexis Haass: the positivity that

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Alexis Haass: an optimism that

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Alexis Haass: we can. Of course we will. You know

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Alexis Haass: we're going to do this.

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Alexis Haass: And it was also the calm that came along with that.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): No, no.

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Alexis Haass: And and just kind of being an amazing role model that just sort of more through

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Alexis Haass: yeah, actions, through through presence, was sort of able to connote what we were trying to do.

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Alexis Haass: I have seen that much more upfront and personal in, in my own life and personal life, for people who have done it.

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Alexis Haass: You know professional life. Like

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Alexis Haass: Eric, who was the president of Brands, I saw what he would do to animate the entire company around Division. He was famous for it, and the ability to just comfortably, casually talk with people and boy. He made some big failures, big mistakes, but that was okay. And he showed that it was okay. You know, that was really catalytic. I mean.

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Alexis Haass: maybe if I hadn't, said Obama, I would have said my mother, which is a little.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): Oh!

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Alexis Haass: Silly, but in terms of emotional intelligence. I literally know nobody better. I mean, she's an amazing clinician and does amazing work, you know.

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Alexis Haass: like top leading work in the Us. But at the same time the level of introspection. Listening.

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Alexis Haass: you know that she has and can show to other people, and the sort of just not Pollyanna, but

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Alexis Haass: realistic optimism and commitment and grit to just get it done.

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Alexis Haass: Yeah, I hope I wind up being more like her.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): I love that I love. I love ending on that beautiful note. You know the catalyst family is where you started, and then we wrap it there, Alexis, this has been a joy. It's such a fun way for us to get to spend an hour. Thank you.

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Alexis Haass: It's lovely to be here.

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Tracey Lovejoy (she, her): So glad, and thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to learn about how to create bold, powerful change in the world, be sure to check out our book, move fast, break ship, burn out, or go to our website at catalyst constellationscom.

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: And if you enjoyed this episode as much as we did, please take 10 seconds to rate it on itunes, spotify stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast

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Shannon Lucas - Catalyst Constellations: of course. If you have other catalysts in your life, hit the share button and send a link their way thanks for listening.